sokpupet
Legend
Go Dark Brandon!
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Post by sokpupet on Nov 2, 2022 0:42:28 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2022 17:58:51 GMT
It's amusing to see that pastor in the second video squirming around as CH is asking him a single actual example of what he's saying. These people are so full of shit that they keep going on tangents making meaningless general statements that they have no intention to prove and when called on them they simply go on another tangent.
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Post by Mercy for All on Nov 2, 2022 18:18:18 GMT
You can't make a good case that the U.S. a Christian nation from the perspective of the structure of the nation or from the tenets of Christianity. From a Christian point of view, there is not really any such thing as a "Christian nation" (although you could argue that there is such thing as a Christian ized nation).
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Post by Mercy for All on Nov 2, 2022 18:26:49 GMT
As for the first video, I only got a couple of minutes in to see him misrepresent claims, cherry pick passages, etc., to make a kind of ridiculous case. Hyper-literalist interpretation certainly suits him. Smart man? Maybe, but not a smart argument here. Interesting though that he dismisses women as stupid, illiterate, deluded, and hysterical...simply by virtue of being women? It's actually significant that if the texts are fabricated the authors would choose to describe the first witnesses as women! I mean...why? Unless, of course, they were actual witnesses. Talk about missing the forest! Of course, he also makes the obvious mistake that the story of Jesus is merely the presentation of a "new philosophy" (akin to that of Socrates).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2022 21:39:55 GMT
As for the first video, I only got a couple of minutes in to see him misrepresent claims, cherry pick passages, etc., to make a kind of ridiculous case. Hyper-literalist interpretation certainly suits him. Smart man? Maybe, but not a smart argument here. Interesting though that he dismisses women as stupid, illiterate, deluded, and hysterical...simply by virtue of being women? It's actually significant that if the texts are fabricated the authors would choose to describe the first witnesses as women! I mean...why? Unless, of course, they were actual witnesses. Talk about missing the forest! Of course, he also makes the obvious mistake that the story of Jesus is merely the presentation of a "new philosophy" (akin to that of Socrates). You don't know yourself what the story of jesus really is. You posit that a text written several decades after the events is completely accurate when police reports are full of witness accounts that can't agree on anything except the most basic elements about events that took place only hours before the accounts! Imagine how much of these accounts would be left after thirty to forty years! The mind boggles.
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bama beau
Legend
Fish will piss anywhere. They just live in water.
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Post by bama beau on Nov 10, 2022 4:11:11 GMT
It's amusing to see that pastor in the second video squirming around as CH is asking him a single actual example of what he's saying. These people are so full of shit that they keep going on tangents making meaningless general statements that they have no intention to prove and when called on them they simply go on another tangent. Good thing then that none of that stops me from loving the example of Jesus Christ.
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bama beau
Legend
Fish will piss anywhere. They just live in water.
Posts: 11,579
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Post by bama beau on Nov 10, 2022 4:25:53 GMT
If you appreciate CH as an exemplary heretic of his time, you'd really love the Greatest of the heretics of His time. Wasn't Jesus Christ crucified for something like heresy? Thus, I seldom have a problem with heretics. They are at least still playing an honest game. The problem I usually have is with hypocrites, because they are not. If anyone is hellbound, it is not the heretic. Rather, it is the hypocrite, who never committed to any side of anything. God Bless Christopher Hitchens.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2022 7:41:33 GMT
It's amusing to see that pastor in the second video squirming around as CH is asking him a single actual example of what he's saying. These people are so full of shit that they keep going on tangents making meaningless general statements that they have no intention to prove and when called on them they simply go on another tangent. Good thing then that none of that stops me from loving the example of Jesus Christ. That's your time to waste.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2022 7:46:00 GMT
If you appreciate CH as an exemplary heretic of his time, you'd really love the Greatest of the heretics of His time. Wasn't Jesus Christ crucified for something like heresy? Thus, I seldom have a problem with heretics. They are at least still playing an honest game. The problem I usually have is with hypocrites, because they are not. If anyone is hellbound, it is not the heretic. Rather, it is the hypocrite, who never committed to any side of anything. God Bless Christopher Hitchens.I don't believe that you truly know what heresy means. It's quite specific and definitely does not apply to CH. Heretics are believers, who stray from the dominant religious dogma in a way that is considered to be beyond what is acceptable. For one thing, CH was an Atheist.
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Post by Mercy for All on Nov 10, 2022 21:01:52 GMT
If you appreciate CH as an exemplary heretic of his time, you'd really love the Greatest of the heretics of His time. Wasn't Jesus Christ crucified for something like heresy? Thus, I seldom have a problem with heretics. They are at least still playing an honest game. The problem I usually have is with hypocrites, because they are not. If anyone is hellbound, it is not the heretic. Rather, it is the hypocrite, who never committed to any side of anything. God Bless Christopher Hitchens.Was Christopher Hitchens kicking back against a more-or-less universal religious orthodoxy in his day? I doubt it. He wouldn't have sold many books.
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bama beau
Legend
Fish will piss anywhere. They just live in water.
Posts: 11,579
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Post by bama beau on Nov 10, 2022 21:39:04 GMT
If you appreciate CH as an exemplary heretic of his time, you'd really love the Greatest of the heretics of His time. Wasn't Jesus Christ crucified for something like heresy? Thus, I seldom have a problem with heretics. They are at least still playing an honest game. The problem I usually have is with hypocrites, because they are not. If anyone is hellbound, it is not the heretic. Rather, it is the hypocrite, who never committed to any side of anything. God Bless Christopher Hitchens.Was Christopher Hitchens kicking back against a more-or-less universal religious orthodoxy in his day? I doubt it. He wouldn't have sold many books. Was Christ kicking back against a universal orthodoxy in his day, or does the Bible just try to make it seem that way?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2022 21:55:46 GMT
Was Christopher Hitchens kicking back against a more-or-less universal religious orthodoxy in his day? I doubt it. He wouldn't have sold many books. Was Christ kicking back against a universal orthodoxy in his day, or does the Bible just try to make it seem that way? You think the bible is lying?
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bama beau
Legend
Fish will piss anywhere. They just live in water.
Posts: 11,579
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Post by bama beau on Nov 10, 2022 23:06:13 GMT
Was Christ kicking back against a universal orthodoxy in his day, or does the Bible just try to make it seem that way? You think the bible is lying? I think the Bible is telling a story.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2022 23:10:08 GMT
You think the bible is lying? I think the Bible is telling a story. So not the truth.
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Post by Mercy for All on Nov 11, 2022 14:10:26 GMT
Was Christopher Hitchens kicking back against a more-or-less universal religious orthodoxy in his day? I doubt it. He wouldn't have sold many books. Was Christ kicking back against a universal orthodoxy in his day, or does the Bible just try to make it seem that way? He was certainly kicking back against some of the orthodox ies of his day. The claim to be Messiah wasn't that big a deal (there were more than a couple of other claimants), but the claim to some sort of divinity was a deal breaker. Some examples: 1. Jesus implied that what was going on in the Temple in particular (and Jerusalem in general) was corrupt enough to warrant its destruction (although the Essenes agreed with him on this, but Jesus actually did something about it). 2. He associated himself with the divine messianic figure in Daniel (at the moment of truth, in front of the Sanhedrin). 3. He had the audacity to break rules and expectations of "cleanness" (associating with gentiles, traitors, the wrong kind of women, lepers, etc.). "Cleanness" was what impacted acceptability before God; this was long before our individualized culture—what you did didn't just impact you, it impacted your family, your village, your nation, etc. 4. He claimed the ultimate authority of interpretation of Torah and centred it around himself (interpretation battles were common, but that last bit...). So in a lot ways, what we perceive today when we read the text isn't as "unorthodox" as we might think, but in other ways, some of his actions were far more controversial, shocking, and revolutionary.
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Post by Mercy for All on Nov 11, 2022 14:11:52 GMT
You think the bible is lying? I think the Bible is telling a story. Yes, I grew up hearing that "the Bible is our rulebook" or "guidebook." You'd think, if that were true, there would be more rules, and they would be arranged far more systematically. Instead, stories (and "story") overwhelm the "rules." Of course, it's "story" that guides and determines our culture and worldview. Not rules.
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Post by Mercy for All on Nov 11, 2022 16:39:24 GMT
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Post by Fiddler on Nov 30, 2022 16:50:46 GMT
I think the Bible is telling a story. Yes, I grew up hearing that "the Bible is our rulebook" or "guidebook." You'd think, if that were true, there would be more rules, and they would be arranged far more systematically. The ambiguity is intentional..
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Post by Mercy for All on Nov 30, 2022 17:00:07 GMT
Yes, I grew up hearing that "the Bible is our rulebook" or "guidebook." You'd think, if that were true, there would be more rules, and they would be arranged far more systematically. The ambiguity is intentional.. Not really. It's not about rules. It's mostly narrative designed to communicate an offer and elicit a response. Most of the rules in fact are the terms of the suzerainty-type covenant God established with Israel.
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Post by Fiddler on Nov 30, 2022 17:15:18 GMT
The ambiguity is intentional.. Not really. It's not about rules. It's mostly narrative designed to communicate an offer and elicit a response. Most of the rules in fact are the terms of the suzerainty-type covenant God established with Israel. Of course it's intentionally ambiguous.. done so in order for the texts to say nearly anything you want about your (majestic plural) agenda.. ..
If it were clear its usefulness as a tool for manipulation wouldn't exist. ..
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