Black Death survivors got edge during pandemics...

Odysseus
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Black Death survivors got edge during pandemics... Oct 20, 2022 0:06:26 GMT

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Post by Odysseus on Oct 20, 2022 0:06:26 GMT

How Black Death survivors gave their descendants an edge during pandemics

When the bubonic plague arrived in London in 1348, the disease devastated the city. So many people died, so quickly, that the city's cemeteries filled up.

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In the end, this bubonic plague, known as the Black Death, likely killed 30 to 50% of people in parts of Europe and the United Kingdom. That's a mortality rate that's at least 200 times higher than the one estimated for COVID, Barreiro points out.

"We all think that COVID-19 was insane and completely changed the world and our societies," Barreiro says. "COVID has a mortality rate of about 0.05% – something like that. Now try to project – if it's even possible – a scenario where 30 to 50% of the population dies."

Now a new study, published Wednesday in the journal Nature, shows that the Black Death altered more than society: It also likely altered the evolution of the European people's genome.

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There is a drawback to being immune to the Black Death: possible increased susceptibility to autoimmune ailments like rheumatoid arthritis and Crohn's disease.

Last Edit: Oct 21, 2022 18:32:04 GMT by Odysseus

“Never wrestle with pigs. You both get dirty and the pig likes it.” ― George Bernard Shaw

Deleted Deleted Member Posts: 0	Black Death survivors got edge during pandemics... Oct 20, 2022 7:29:27 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2022 7:29:27 GMT I think I am immune to death. We'll see.

Odysseus
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Black Death survivors got edge during pandemics... Oct 20, 2022 8:03:14 GMT

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Post by Odysseus on Oct 20, 2022 8:03:14 GMT

Oct 20, 2022 7:29:27 GMT @davejavu said:

I think I am immune to death. We'll see.

Some Euros are immune to bubonic plague.

As some modern humans, or so I've read, are immune to Covid-19. I sort of joked to my dentist the other week that I think I'm immune to Covid. He didn't laugh. Or he might have laughed, behind his face mask.

But some people are naturally immune to Covid.

A lucky few seem ‘resistant’ to Covid-19. Scientists want to know why

It's very complex, and I decided one needs to read the entire article to get the gist of it. Bottom line, though, is that while natural Covid resistance does occur, it's relatively rare and they still don't know exactly how and why.

“Never wrestle with pigs. You both get dirty and the pig likes it.” ― George Bernard Shaw

Mercy for All Legend Posts: 8,668	Black Death survivors got edge during pandemics... Oct 20, 2022 14:13:22 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Mercy for All on Oct 20, 2022 14:13:22 GMT Seems the non-survivors of the Black Death would have difficulty passing anything on...

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Black Death survivors got edge during pandemics... Oct 20, 2022 23:46:29 GMT

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Post by Odysseus on Oct 20, 2022 23:46:29 GMT

Oct 20, 2022 14:13:22 GMT Mercy for All said:

Seems the non-survivors of the Black Death would have difficulty passing anything on...

Um, that's sort of the whole point of "non-survivor"...

About 50% survived Black Death because they were resistant to Black Death.

Try reading the link, thank you very much.

“Never wrestle with pigs. You both get dirty and the pig likes it.” ― George Bernard Shaw

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Black Death survivors got edge during pandemics... Oct 20, 2022 23:55:58 GMT

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Post by Odysseus on Oct 20, 2022 23:55:58 GMT

Here's a helpful link:

Black Death may have influenced evolution of genes involved in immune responses, study finds

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In a paper published Wednesday in Nature, Poinar, together with researchers from the University of Chicago and France’s Institut Pasteur, studied DNA samples from individuals at the East Smithfield graveyard as well as people who lived just before and a few decades after the Black Death. The team found that the Black Death not only created selective evolutionary pressure for genes that promote better immune response to Y. pestis but also may have contributed to humans’ current susceptibility to autoimmune diseases like Crohn’s disease.

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Studies have estimated that the Black Death killed 30%–50% of Europe’s population between 1347-1351. (For scale, the mortality rate for the Covid pandemic is less than 2.5% for most countries.) The “plague resistance” Norman referred to stems from the hypothesis that this concentrated mass death event could have caused hugely selective pressure on the genetics of the individuals who survived, who would likely have passed down genes that allowed them to survive the plague.

While a few studies have previously looked at the ancient DNA of plague victims, until this point, no studies had shown that genetic variances in people’s DNA before and after the Black Death were connected to the body’s immune response to Y. pestis.

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Under selection events like the Black Death, it’s beneficial to express more genes related to immune response. But in times where there’s no longer a pathogen like Y. pestis to fight against, that increased immune sensitivity is a disadvantage, leaving people at a bigger risk for diseases like Crohn’s, rheumatoid arthritis, and lupus, all of which have documented links to genes identified in this study.

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“Never wrestle with pigs. You both get dirty and the pig likes it.” ― George Bernard Shaw

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Black Death survivors got edge during pandemics... Oct 21, 2022 0:11:40 GMT

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Post by Odysseus on Oct 21, 2022 0:11:40 GMT

PS- I worked for a few years doing research in an immunology lab. Decades before Covid-19 hit the news. Although it wasn't my original area of expertise, I learned a lot about immunology in the process. Sounds like resistance to diseases like the Black Death (bubonic plague) is a two-edged sword, as it can make developing autoimmune ailments more likely.

Autoimmune, you may ask?

Here's another link:

Autoimmune Diseases

What are autoimmune diseases?

Your immune system protects you from disease and infection by attacking germs that get into your body, such as viruses and bacteria. Your immune system can tell that the germs aren't part of you, so it destroys them. If you have an autoimmune disease, your immune system attacks the healthy cells of your organs and tissues by mistake.

There are more than 80 types of autoimmune diseases. They can affect almost any part of your body. For example, alopecia areata is an autoimmune disease of the skin that causes hair loss. Autoimmune hepatitis affects the liver. In type 1 diabetes, the immune system attacks the pancreas. And in rheumatoid arthritis, the immune system can attack many parts of the body, including the joints, lungs, and eyes.

What causes autoimmune diseases?

No one is sure why autoimmune diseases happen. But you can't catch them from other people.

Autoimmune diseases do tend to run in families, which means that certain genes may make some people more likely to develop a problem. Viruses, certain chemicals, and other things in the environment may trigger an autoimmune disease if you already have the genes for it.

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“Never wrestle with pigs. You both get dirty and the pig likes it.” ― George Bernard Shaw

Mercy for All
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Black Death survivors got edge during pandemics... Oct 21, 2022 0:27:14 GMT

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Post by Mercy for All on Oct 21, 2022 0:27:14 GMT

Oct 20, 2022 23:46:29 GMT Odysseus said:

Oct 20, 2022 14:13:22 GMT Mercy for All said:

Seems the non-survivors of the Black Death would have difficulty passing anything on...

Um, that's sort of the whole point of "non-survivor"...

About 50% survived Black Death because they were resistant to Black Death.

Try reading the link, thank you very much.

So then everyone of European descent would carry genetic immunity to Black Death and have an edge against COVID.

Last Edit: Oct 21, 2022 0:27:45 GMT by Mercy for All

Odysseus
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Black Death survivors got edge during pandemics... Oct 21, 2022 5:36:55 GMT

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Post by Odysseus on Oct 21, 2022 5:36:55 GMT

Oct 21, 2022 0:27:14 GMT Mercy for All said:

Oct 20, 2022 23:46:29 GMT Odysseus said:

Um, that's sort of the whole point of "non-survivor"...

About 50% survived Black Death because they were resistant to Black Death.

Try reading the link, thank you very much.

So then everyone of European descent would carry genetic immunity to Black Death and have an edge against COVID.

No no no!

1) All Europeans do not necessarily carry genetic immunity to Black Death.

2) Immunity to Black Death is unrelated to immunity to Covid.

3) The number of people with immunity to Covid appears to be quite small.

4) I suspect I might have such Covid immunity, but I've also been careful to get fully immunized against Covid, and will continue so to do for as long as Covid is around.

5) Claro que si?

“Never wrestle with pigs. You both get dirty and the pig likes it.” ― George Bernard Shaw

Mercy for All
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Black Death survivors got edge during pandemics... Oct 21, 2022 16:16:30 GMT

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Post by Mercy for All on Oct 21, 2022 16:16:30 GMT

Oct 21, 2022 5:36:55 GMT Odysseus said:

Oct 21, 2022 0:27:14 GMT Mercy for All said:

So then everyone of European descent would carry genetic immunity to Black Death and have an edge against COVID.

No no no!

1) All Europeans do not necessarily carry genetic immunity to Black Death.

Just the descendants of the survivors?

2) Immunity to Black Death is unrelated to immunity to Covid.

Really? So what is this "edge against COVID" that is mentioned in the title?

4) I suspect I might have such Covid immunity, but I've also been careful to get fully immunized against Covid, and will continue so to do for as long as Covid is around.

Me too, except for the latest booster.

Odysseus
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Black Death survivors got edge during pandemics... Oct 21, 2022 18:30:31 GMT

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Post by Odysseus on Oct 21, 2022 18:30:31 GMT

'In the study, Barreiro and his colleagues found that Black Death survivors in London and Denmark had an edge in their genes – mutations that helped protect against the plague pathogen, Yersinia pestis. Survivors passed those mutations onto their descendants, and many Europeans still carry those mutations today."

Many is not the same as all, or even the same as a majority. Plus, this study was limited to just London and Denmark.

“Never wrestle with pigs. You both get dirty and the pig likes it.” ― George Bernard Shaw

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Black Death survivors got edge during pandemics...

Post by Odysseus on Oct 20, 2022 0:06:26 GMT

Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2022 7:29:27 GMT

Post by Odysseus on Oct 20, 2022 8:03:14 GMT

Post by Mercy for All on Oct 20, 2022 14:13:22 GMT

Post by Odysseus on Oct 20, 2022 23:46:29 GMT

Post by Odysseus on Oct 20, 2022 23:55:58 GMT

Post by Odysseus on Oct 21, 2022 0:11:40 GMT

Post by Mercy for All on Oct 21, 2022 0:27:14 GMT

Post by Odysseus on Oct 21, 2022 5:36:55 GMT

Post by Mercy for All on Oct 21, 2022 16:16:30 GMT

Post by Odysseus on Oct 21, 2022 18:30:31 GMT

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