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Post by freonbale on Aug 26, 2020 14:20:20 GMT
I don't think too many would argue that as a country, we are becoming more and more liberal.
In the 40's, women made babies at home, and blacks drank from separate water fountains.
In the 60's, women realized their breasts were power, and blacks realized they could own guns too.
In the 80's, inter-racial marriages were sort of boring and common, and gays started to become that too.
In the 00's, gays also became rather boring and common, and LGBTQ became a group we could no longer ignore.
Now, nearing the 20's, LGBTQ are becoming more common, and new groups will also assert their right to the freedoms the rest of us enjoy.
Projected out to the future, in another 60-80 years, there will be few large groups that are not boring and common and accepted.
So Trump, like McCarthy, is an obstacle, not a trend. Like back then, we will see this as 'dark times', but not as a turning point.
What do you think?
Freon
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Post by Fiddler on Aug 26, 2020 15:16:25 GMT
It can never be said often enough .. whether it's Tories loyal to England, Southern slavers, anti-women's suffrage, anti-civil rights, anti-voting rights, Conservatives are ALWAYS on the wrong side of history ..
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thor
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Post by thor on Aug 26, 2020 17:58:14 GMT
I don't think too many would argue that as a country, we are becoming more and more liberal.
In the 40's, women made babies at home, and blacks drank from separate water fountains.
In the 60's, women realized their breasts were power, and blacks realized they could own guns too.
In the 80's, inter-racial marriages were sort of boring and common, and gays started to become that too.
In the 00's, gays also became rather boring and common, and LGBTQ became a group we could no longer ignore.
Now, nearing the 20's, LGBTQ are becoming more common, and new groups will also assert their right to the freedoms the rest of us enjoy.
Projected out to the future, in another 60-80 years, there will be few large groups that are not boring and common and accepted.
So Trump, like McCarthy, is an obstacle, not a trend. Like back then, we will see this as 'dark times', but not as a turning point.
What do you think?
Freon
Given a long enough timeline, progress ALWAYS wins. |
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Post by rabbitreborn on Aug 26, 2020 18:11:04 GMT
I don't think too many would argue that as a country, we are becoming more and more liberal.
In the 40's, women made babies at home, and blacks drank from separate water fountains.
In the 60's, women realized their breasts were power, and blacks realized they could own guns too.
In the 80's, inter-racial marriages were sort of boring and common, and gays started to become that too.
In the 00's, gays also became rather boring and common, and LGBTQ became a group we could no longer ignore.
Now, nearing the 20's, LGBTQ are becoming more common, and new groups will also assert their right to the freedoms the rest of us enjoy.
Projected out to the future, in another 60-80 years, there will be few large groups that are not boring and common and accepted.
So Trump, like McCarthy, is an obstacle, not a trend. Like back then, we will see this as 'dark times', but not as a turning point.
What do you think?
Freon
These things all pale in comparison to the higher time preferences that our society is adopting, and how that will wreak havoc on the future. These are the issues that the political and financial elites want you to focus on while they take more and more for themselves through direct and indirect political means. They will pat you on the head for your moral righteousness and lock arms with you when it is opportunistic for them to do so. But really? They just want more power. And they’re getting it. If that’s more “liberal”, then we’ve really done a full 180 on the term now. People are cheering state executives placing everybody on house arrest. NYC is driving wealthy people away in droves. Overall debt burden for future generations is rising exponentially. The military industrial complex has achieved their forever wars. But yeah. Tolerance of alternative sexual identities is at an all time high!!!! Winning! |
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Post by freonbale on Aug 26, 2020 18:40:52 GMT
I don't think too many would argue that as a country, we are becoming more and more liberal.
In the 40's, women made babies at home, and blacks drank from separate water fountains.
In the 60's, women realized their breasts were power, and blacks realized they could own guns too.
In the 80's, inter-racial marriages were sort of boring and common, and gays started to become that too.
In the 00's, gays also became rather boring and common, and LGBTQ became a group we could no longer ignore.
Now, nearing the 20's, LGBTQ are becoming more common, and new groups will also assert their right to the freedoms the rest of us enjoy.
Projected out to the future, in another 60-80 years, there will be few large groups that are not boring and common and accepted.
So Trump, like McCarthy, is an obstacle, not a trend. Like back then, we will see this as 'dark times', but not as a turning point.
What do you think?
Freon
These things all pale in comparison to the higher time preferences that our society is adopting, and how that will wreak havoc on the future. These are the issues that the political and financial elites want you to focus on while they take more and more for themselves through direct and indirect political means. They will pat you on the head for your moral righteousness and lock arms with you when it is opportunistic for them to do so. But really? They just want more power. And they’re getting it. If that’s more “liberal”, then we’ve really done a full 180 on the term now. People are cheering state executives placing everybody on house arrest. NYC is driving wealthy people away in droves. Overall debt burden for future generations is rising exponentially. The military industrial complex has achieved their forever wars. But yeah. Tolerance of alternative sexual identities is at an all time high!!!! Winning! I don't disagree with a lot of your points.
But consider that nothing in our original constitution and bill of rights says anything about most of what you just wrote.
It talks about personal freedom, about liberty, the pursuit of happiness, those guns people love so much, etc.
From that perspective, they were advocating liberal progress. ALL men are created equal. A goal we still aspire to.
Freon
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thor
Legend
Posts: 20,537
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Post by thor on Aug 27, 2020 7:09:25 GMT
I don't think too many would argue that as a country, we are becoming more and more liberal.
In the 40's, women made babies at home, and blacks drank from separate water fountains.
In the 60's, women realized their breasts were power, and blacks realized they could own guns too.
In the 80's, inter-racial marriages were sort of boring and common, and gays started to become that too.
In the 00's, gays also became rather boring and common, and LGBTQ became a group we could no longer ignore.
Now, nearing the 20's, LGBTQ are becoming more common, and new groups will also assert their right to the freedoms the rest of us enjoy.
Projected out to the future, in another 60-80 years, there will be few large groups that are not boring and common and accepted.
So Trump, like McCarthy, is an obstacle, not a trend. Like back then, we will see this as 'dark times', but not as a turning point.
What do you think?
Freon
These things all pale in comparison to the higher time preferences that our society is adopting, and how that will wreak havoc on the future. These are the issues that the political and financial elites want you to focus on while they take more and more for themselves through direct and indirect political means. They will pat you on the head for your moral righteousness and lock arms with you when it is opportunistic for them to do so. But really? They just want more power. And they’re getting it. If that’s more “liberal”, then we’ve really done a full 180 on the term now. People are cheering state executives placing everybody on house arrest. NYC is driving wealthy people away in droves. Overall debt burden for future generations is rising exponentially. The military industrial complex has achieved their forever wars. But yeah. Tolerance of alternative sexual identities is at an all time high!!!! Winning! Scratch long enough.... the 'libertarian' bigot shines through.... This fucking loser.... |
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Post by rabbitreborn on Aug 27, 2020 7:11:19 GMT
These things all pale in comparison to the higher time preferences that our society is adopting, and how that will wreak havoc on the future. These are the issues that the political and financial elites want you to focus on while they take more and more for themselves through direct and indirect political means. They will pat you on the head for your moral righteousness and lock arms with you when it is opportunistic for them to do so. But really? They just want more power. And they’re getting it. If that’s more “liberal”, then we’ve really done a full 180 on the term now. People are cheering state executives placing everybody on house arrest. NYC is driving wealthy people away in droves. Overall debt burden for future generations is rising exponentially. The military industrial complex has achieved their forever wars. But yeah. Tolerance of alternative sexual identities is at an all time high!!!! Winning! Scratch long enough.... the 'libertarian' bigot shines through.... This fucking loser.... Lmao. What a stupid fucking asshole. Bwaaa hahahahaha. |
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Post by rabbitreborn on Aug 27, 2020 7:12:15 GMT
These things all pale in comparison to the higher time preferences that our society is adopting, and how that will wreak havoc on the future. These are the issues that the political and financial elites want you to focus on while they take more and more for themselves through direct and indirect political means. They will pat you on the head for your moral righteousness and lock arms with you when it is opportunistic for them to do so. But really? They just want more power. And they’re getting it. If that’s more “liberal”, then we’ve really done a full 180 on the term now. People are cheering state executives placing everybody on house arrest. NYC is driving wealthy people away in droves. Overall debt burden for future generations is rising exponentially. The military industrial complex has achieved their forever wars. But yeah. Tolerance of alternative sexual identities is at an all time high!!!! Winning! I don't disagree with a lot of your points.
But consider that nothing in our original constitution and bill of rights says anything about most of what you just wrote.
It talks about personal freedom, about liberty, the pursuit of happiness, those guns people love so much, etc.
From that perspective, they were advocating liberal progress. ALL men are created equal. A goal we still aspire to.
Freon
How can being “created” equal be a goal? The Declaration didn’t say all men are made equal through government. It wasn’t a goal. |
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thor
Legend
Posts: 20,537
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Post by thor on Aug 27, 2020 7:30:12 GMT
Scratch long enough.... the 'libertarian' bigot shines through.... This fucking loser.... Lmao. What a stupid fucking asshole. Bwaaa hahahahaha. LMAO!!!! I OWN you, you dumb twat....you are merely too stupid to see it.  |
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Post by rabbitreborn on Aug 27, 2020 8:04:38 GMT
Lmao. What a stupid fucking asshole. Bwaaa hahahahaha. LMAO!!!! I OWN you, you dumb twat....you are merely too stupid to see it. Imagine being dumb enough, in 2020, to think that calling somebody a “bigot” is “owning” them. Bwaaaa hahahahaha! What a stupid fucking asshole! Haha. |
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Post by crepe05 on Aug 27, 2020 10:52:38 GMT
What exactly does equal mean? Equal in what? That's what all the stress and argument and war comes down to.
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Post by freonbale on Aug 27, 2020 16:21:32 GMT
What exactly does equal mean? Equal in what? That's what all the stress and argument and war comes down to. I agree with you.
And it is made worse that there are three sides in this.
Your side. My side. and the side that keeps us at odds with each other.
Freon
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2020 16:33:23 GMT
I don't think too many would argue that as a country, we are becoming more and more liberal.
In the 40's, women made babies at home, and blacks drank from separate water fountains.
In the 60's, women realized their breasts were power, and blacks realized they could own guns too.
In the 80's, inter-racial marriages were sort of boring and common, and gays started to become that too.
In the 00's, gays also became rather boring and common, and LGBTQ became a group we could no longer ignore.
Now, nearing the 20's, LGBTQ are becoming more common, and new groups will also assert their right to the freedoms the rest of us enjoy.
Projected out to the future, in another 60-80 years, there will be few large groups that are not boring and common and accepted.
So Trump, like McCarthy, is an obstacle, not a trend. Like back then, we will see this as 'dark times', but not as a turning point.
What do you think?
Freon
These things all pale in comparison to the higher time preferences that our society is adopting, and how that will wreak havoc on the future. These are the issues that the political and financial elites want you to focus on while they take more and more for themselves through direct and indirect political means. They will pat you on the head for your moral righteousness and lock arms with you when it is opportunistic for them to do so. But really? They just want more power. And they’re getting it. If that’s more “liberal”, then we’ve really done a full 180 on the term now. People are cheering state executives placing everybody on house arrest. NYC is driving wealthy people away in droves. Overall debt burden for future generations is rising exponentially. The military industrial complex has achieved their forever wars. But yeah. Tolerance of alternative sexual identities is at an all time high!!!! Winning! I don't know about the high time preference claim. Personal saving rates are up and growing. Are time preferences any higher today than they were 30 years ago? I'm not sure. But we are becoming more attuned to injustice, whether it be the remnants of apartheid in our housing policies or criminal justice system, and I count that as a good thing! Democracy has always led to short term thinking and rewarding cronies over pursuing the common good. But no other system of government is any better and most are far worse. Somehow society keeps moving. |
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Post by freonbale on Aug 27, 2020 21:46:49 GMT
These things all pale in comparison to the higher time preferences that our society is adopting, and how that will wreak havoc on the future. These are the issues that the political and financial elites want you to focus on while they take more and more for themselves through direct and indirect political means. They will pat you on the head for your moral righteousness and lock arms with you when it is opportunistic for them to do so. But really? They just want more power. And they’re getting it. If that’s more “liberal”, then we’ve really done a full 180 on the term now. People are cheering state executives placing everybody on house arrest. NYC is driving wealthy people away in droves. Overall debt burden for future generations is rising exponentially. The military industrial complex has achieved their forever wars. But yeah. Tolerance of alternative sexual identities is at an all time high!!!! Winning! I don't know about the high time preference claim. Personal saving rates are up and growing. Are time preferences any higher today than they were 30 years ago? I'm not sure. But we are becoming more attuned to injustice, whether it be the remnants of apartheid in our housing policies or criminal justice system, and I count that as a good thing! Democracy has always led to short term thinking and rewarding cronies over pursuing the common good. But no other system of government is any better and most are far worse. Somehow society keeps moving. And let's not forget that quality of life, or at least, ease of the basics (a roof and food), is becoming far easier than at any time in history. Freon |
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petep
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Posts: 26,034
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Post by petep on Aug 28, 2020 1:20:43 GMT
A great read is a book called collapse: why great societies failed by Jared diamond.
A study of histories great civilizations and societies and how they grew, prospered and failed.
Things we think shows progress is not always progress.
Many good lessons.
San Francisco covered in human feces and drug needles is hardly progress.
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bama beau
Legend
Fish will piss anywhere. They just live in water.
Posts: 11,607
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Post by bama beau on Aug 28, 2020 1:47:23 GMT
San Francisco covered in human feces and drug needles is hardly progress. Progress? Certainly not. It's not even reality. |
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Post by freonbale on Aug 28, 2020 2:07:53 GMT
A great read is a book called collapse: why great societies failed by Jared diamond. A study of histories great civilizations and societies and how they grew, prospered and failed. Things we think shows progress is not always progress. Many good lessons. San Francisco covered in human feces and drug needles is hardly progress. Actually, it's called Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed. Big difference. Freon |
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Post by rabbitreborn on Aug 29, 2020 11:39:46 GMT
These things all pale in comparison to the higher time preferences that our society is adopting, and how that will wreak havoc on the future. These are the issues that the political and financial elites want you to focus on while they take more and more for themselves through direct and indirect political means. They will pat you on the head for your moral righteousness and lock arms with you when it is opportunistic for them to do so. But really? They just want more power. And they’re getting it. If that’s more “liberal”, then we’ve really done a full 180 on the term now. People are cheering state executives placing everybody on house arrest. NYC is driving wealthy people away in droves. Overall debt burden for future generations is rising exponentially. The military industrial complex has achieved their forever wars. But yeah. Tolerance of alternative sexual identities is at an all time high!!!! Winning! I don't know about the high time preference claim. Personal saving rates are up and growing. Are time preferences any higher today than they were 30 years ago? I'm not sure. But we are becoming more attuned to injustice, whether it be the remnants of apartheid in our housing policies or criminal justice system, and I count that as a good thing! Democracy has always led to short term thinking and rewarding cronies over pursuing the common good. But no other system of government is any better and most are far worse. Somehow society keeps moving. Personal savings rate changes over the last few years could be seen as part of the natural fluctuations of a decades long downward trend. More recently? Yes. In the last few months, the savings rate has skyrocketed. But that’s to be expected in the context of insane times, massive riots, and economic lockdown. But the fed funds rate has been at or near zero since 2008. Trillions more in spending and debt. The savings rate, in real terms, isn’t going up in the long term. As to injustice, when was the last time we saw any real journalism in Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, or the host of African nations the American empire is bombing? I’m seeing less coverage. I’m seeing neocons, more hated by the public than ever, actually increasing their hold on the government. People are turning on the protests, and that’s inevitable. I’d be surprised to see any actual significant libertarian or liberal adjustments to the criminal justice system. Too many video showing violent riots and fascist tactics, even if those aren’t an accurate representation. I’m seeing Rand Paul, hardly my favorite person but one who proposed legislation in Breonna Taylor’s name to end no-knock raids, get harassed and scolded by people demanding he recognize Breonna Taylor’s horrible death. I think this is all political. And just as the war machine continued on with Obama’s election, so will the police state with a hypothetical Biden election. It will just be covered less by a complicit media. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2020 15:36:23 GMT
I don't know about the high time preference claim. Personal saving rates are up and growing. Are time preferences any higher today than they were 30 years ago? I'm not sure. But we are becoming more attuned to injustice, whether it be the remnants of apartheid in our housing policies or criminal justice system, and I count that as a good thing! Democracy has always led to short term thinking and rewarding cronies over pursuing the common good. But no other system of government is any better and most are far worse. Somehow society keeps moving. Personal savings rate changes over the last few years could be seen as part of the natural fluctuations of a decades long downward trend. More recently? Yes. In the last few months, the savings rate has skyrocketed. But that’s to be expected in the context of insane times, massive riots, and economic lockdown. But the fed funds rate has been at or near zero since 2008. Trillions more in spending and debt. The savings rate, in real terms, isn’t going up in the long term. As to injustice, when was the last time we saw any real journalism in Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, or the host of African nations the American empire is bombing? I’m seeing less coverage. I’m seeing neocons, more hated by the public than ever, actually increasing their hold on the government. People are turning on the protests, and that’s inevitable. I’d be surprised to see any actual significant libertarian or liberal adjustments to the criminal justice system. Too many video showing violent riots and fascist tactics, even if those aren’t an accurate representation. I’m seeing Rand Paul, hardly my favorite person but one who proposed legislation in Breonna Taylor’s name to end no-knock raids, get harassed and scolded by people demanding he recognize Breonna Taylor’s horrible death. I think this is all political. And just as the war machine continued on with Obama’s election, so will the police state with a hypothetical Biden election. It will just be covered less by a complicit media. No arguments about the impact crisis has on saving, or the impact ZIRP will have on people living off their savings. You're quite right. One change in my thinking over the last couple years is that I have come to downgrade saving (and capital expansion) in explanations of how economic growth happens. I now see a larger role for contextual things like the presence of a culture that values entrepreneurship and the commercial bourgeois world. I also agree that these protests are political and that Biden is unlikely to change the underlying problem with the police. I think the protesters get that. Its why you don't see this turning into a Biden campaign event. The solution is much bigger than politics. Its going to require a cultural evolution. And perhaps one step in that evolution will be to ensure that the cost, loss and misery associated with a police state become so significant and widespread that the current arrangement becomes untenable. We're not going to get change by appealing to common notions of justice, compassion, humanity or morality. |
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Post by limey² on Aug 29, 2020 16:05:58 GMT
These things all pale in comparison to the higher time preferences that our society is adopting, and how that will wreak havoc on the future. These are the issues that the political and financial elites want you to focus on while they take more and more for themselves through direct and indirect political means. They will pat you on the head for your moral righteousness and lock arms with you when it is opportunistic for them to do so. But really? They just want more power. And they’re getting it. If that’s more “liberal”, then we’ve really done a full 180 on the term now. People are cheering state executives placing everybody on house arrest. NYC is driving wealthy people away in droves. Overall debt burden for future generations is rising exponentially. The military industrial complex has achieved their forever wars. But yeah. Tolerance of alternative sexual identities is at an all time high!!!! Winning! I don't disagree with a lot of your points.
But consider that nothing in our original constitution and bill of rights says anything about most of what you just wrote.
It talks about personal freedom, about liberty, the pursuit of happiness, those guns people love so much, etc.
From that perspective, they were advocating liberal progress. ALL men are created equal. A goal we still aspire to.
Freon
What about the chicks? |
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