demos
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Post by demos on Oct 18, 2023 19:56:33 GMT
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demos
Legend
Posts: 9,199
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Post by demos on Oct 20, 2023 16:38:25 GMT
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demos
Legend
Posts: 9,199
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Post by demos on Oct 26, 2023 18:55:36 GMT
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demos
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Post by demos on Oct 30, 2023 21:53:44 GMT
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demos
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Post by demos on Jan 31, 2024 18:21:25 GMT
Source
Just gonna throw this out there.
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demos
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Post by demos on Feb 2, 2024 18:24:24 GMT
We can send us much military aid as we want, but if there's no one to use it, it won't matter much.
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Post by queshank on Feb 2, 2024 18:59:51 GMT
We can send us much military aid as we want, but if there's no one to use it, it won't matter much.
Gee. I wonder why nobody considered these kinds of downsides before this all got started?
Oh. Wait. That's right. I forgot.
This was tremendous bang for OUR buck.
Teaching the Russians how to counter NATO tactics and by proxy, their allies China. Forcing Russia to retool its entire economy for military production WW2 style. Forcing the Russian military to get its shit together.
These are all good for world stability. And all definitely good for United States "national security." Oh yeah. This is good stuff. Incredible "bang for our buck."
So long as we understand that 'national security' means the "too big to fail" donor class stays in the black there shouldn't be any problems with any of this.
Queshank
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Post by queshank on Feb 2, 2024 19:07:23 GMT
I bet someone could make a helluva profitable business out of selling furniture crafted from the bones of the children of Ukraine.
Slava Ukraine!
Queshank
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Post by queshank on Feb 2, 2024 19:20:27 GMT
Oh who am I kidding? They'd never sell in Western markets.
They're black now.
Queshank
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Post by MojoJojo on Feb 2, 2024 19:35:14 GMT
Never fight back.
When a bigger bully walks into your home declaring it is his, give it to him.
Is there EVER been a time when men should fight?
I was hesitantly behind our using air assets in Yugoslavia, with the condition that if it didn't work, oh well...no ground forces or escalation.
I was against the Persian Gulf conflict, the invasion of Afghanistan, the invasion of Iraq and am 100% against our continuing "war on terror", in a military manner...especially the drone strikes. That shit's bad mojo.
I see NO reason not to keep arming Ukraine with as much ammo and arms as we can spare.
The "you're supporting the defense industry and validating the MIC" gives me pause, but is unpersuasive.
What am I missing? I've read and considered all the "this is our fault" arguments and find them all somewhere on the spectrum from weak to Russian propaganda.
Can a country defend itself or is that just supporting the arms dealers?
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thor
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Post by thor on Feb 2, 2024 19:48:47 GMT
Never fight back. When a bigger bully walks into your home declaring it is his, give it to him. Is there EVER been a time when men should fight? I was hesitantly behind our using air assets in Yugoslavia, with the condition that if it didn't work, oh well...no ground forces or escalation. I was against the Persian Gulf conflict, the invasion of Afghanistan, the invasion of Iraq and am 100% against our continuing "war on terror", in a military manner...especially the drone strikes. That shit's bad mojo. I see NO reason not to keep arming Ukraine with as much ammo and arms as we can spare. The "you're supporting the defense industry and validating the MIC" gives me pause, but is unpersuasive. What am I missing? I've read and considered all the "this is our fault" arguments and find them all somewhere on the spectrum from weak to Russian propaganda. Can a country defend itself or is that just supporting the arms dealers? I did a tour in the Balkans. The Serbs getting the shit blown out of them was a good thing. |
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Post by queshank on Feb 2, 2024 19:53:40 GMT
Never fight back. When a bigger bully walks into your home declaring it is his, give it to him. Is there EVER been a time when men should fight? I don't understand this interpretation of events at all. It's a newly formed, christened in the Blood of the New Order look at events. I believe the men that were being beset upon by bullies that walked into their home and declared it theirs ... were fighting back. For 8 long years they fought, and thousands of them died as they underwent daily shelling funded by Western defense industries through profitable "loans" from donor countries. Before big brother Russia "shook the world!!!/sarcasm" and got actively involved to resolve the situation that the Western defense industries had been using to help bolster their own economies as a consequence of recovering from the 2008 Great Recession and the shaken faith of the average person in expertise and their ruling classes. So I'm not following you 100%. Do you think it's a conspiracy theory that governments and big businesses collude with each other on policy? Did you not live through covid when two days before state announcements were being made, me and my coworkers were given papers to put in our cars that gave us permission to freely move about the community as "essential workers?" Two days before the public was even informed every employee in our huge national conglomerate knew. Did Harry Potter deliver the news by owl? Which is why my argument has always primarily been "you are sacrificing my Ukrainian cousins on the altar of profits for Western companies that you're calling 'democrdacy.'" Western companies plays the much smaller role in that argument. Much, much smaller. As you might have noticed from the post I was responding to? You are missing the references to fashioning furniture out of the bones of the children of Ukraine I've been making for the past near 2 years. Did you ever believe and do you honestly believe that Ukraine can eject Russia from their ethnic lands without us becoming actively involved in the conflict? I never have and nothing in the past 2 years has convinced me otherwise. From a "realpolitik" standpoint, I think this entire thing has been a complete fucking disaster. A disaster perpetrated by buffoons and clowns trading on misplaced arrogance formed by last generation's builders that today's maintainers do not know how to maintain. From a "humanity" standpoint I think this has been one of the gravest unecessary disasters in our lifetime. And no matter how much spin and polish they apply, you cannot escape the smell of shit on that turd. There was no outcome that kept Ukraine intact except acquiescing to Russia's demands from the outset. Demands that from their perspective and as of 2014, the perspective of the people who live on those lands consisted of letting people who vote democratically for their own and shared a common culture and language to separate from Ukraine when a coup took over their government and sent it in a different direction that was hostile to their heritage. And I believe I said this 2 years ago. Come a day you will understand and agree with me. It just saddens me that it will take the slow migration in the news I'm watching happen when Ukraine ever makes the news anymore to lead you to those conclusions I think you would have reached 2 years ago if not for the nonstop psychological manipulation you have experienced the past 8 years. I won't let them get away with what they've done to you Mojo. Queshank |
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Post by queshank on Feb 2, 2024 19:57:48 GMT
Did you ever believe and do you honestly believe that Ukraine can eject Russia from their ethnic lands without us becoming actively involved in the conflict? I never have and nothing in the past 2 years has convinced me otherwise. Queshank And let me repeat myself for the thousandth time.
I
Have
No
Interest
In Becoming
Involved.
I am not sending my son to go and fight his cousins because the US slapped its dick on the table and it got slapped.
And I will pick up arms and fight anyone who thinks I should. And my motivations will be stronger and deeper than the motivations of people being sacrificed for "control" in Ukraine right now.
Queshank
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demos
Legend
Posts: 9,199
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Post by demos on Feb 2, 2024 20:14:56 GMT
Never fight back. When a bigger bully walks into your home declaring it is his, give it to him. You can fight back as long as you can, but at some point - particularly in international relations - you need to do a real assessment on capability.
You might want to that before hand too; sometimes giving up your wallet might be the best outcome.
No one did that in case (including Russia who - despite the rhetoric - isn't looking like some world beater). |
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Post by Lomelis on Feb 2, 2024 20:32:40 GMT
Never fight back. When a bigger bully walks into your home declaring it is his, give it to him. Is there EVER been a time when men should fight? I was hesitantly behind our using air assets in Yugoslavia, with the condition that if it didn't work, oh well...no ground forces or escalation. I was against the Persian Gulf conflict, the invasion of Afghanistan, the invasion of Iraq and am 100% against our continuing "war on terror", in a military manner...especially the drone strikes. That shit's bad mojo. I see NO reason not to keep arming Ukraine with as much ammo and arms as we can spare. The "you're supporting the defense industry and validating the MIC" gives me pause, but is unpersuasive. What am I missing? I've read and considered all the "this is our fault" arguments and find them all somewhere on the spectrum from weak to Russian propaganda. Can a country defend itself or is that just supporting the arms dealers? I'm not sure the argument is that the Ukrainians shouldn't defend themselves. Ukraine is nothing but a pawn that is being sacrificed on behalf of corporate interests. Instead of giving Ukraine weapons and money, we (the US) could end this right now by negotiating directly with Russia on the role of NATO in the region. |
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Post by queshank on Feb 2, 2024 20:32:46 GMT
Did you ever believe and do you honestly believe that Ukraine can eject Russia from their ethnic lands without us becoming actively involved in the conflict? I never have and nothing in the past 2 years has convinced me otherwise. Queshank
I am not sending my son to go and fight his cousins because the US slapped its dick on the table and it got slapped.
And I will pick up arms and fight anyone who thinks I should. And my motivations will be stronger and deeper than the motivations of people being sacrificed for "control" in Ukraine right now.
Queshank
And hey FBI guys reading this. That's absolutely not true. My son is 23 years old and he can make his own stands. I've raised him right. He'll know whether using his artillery training to shell his great grandparent's birthplace in a dick measuring contest over ownership of valuable land is a good idea or not. I raised him right.
I just wanted to point out how weak the motivations being used in Ukraine are. Nobody's life would have changed in Eastern Ukraine. Nobody's. But my life will change. Exponentially more people's lives have changed using the strategies that Western analysts deemed "a bargain."
Wake the fuck up people. Why are you forcing me to sound like Arthur King to get your attention back on the real issues?
Queshank
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demos
Legend
Posts: 9,199
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Post by demos on Feb 11, 2024 18:03:45 GMT
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thor
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Posts: 20,417
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Post by thor on Feb 11, 2024 19:14:40 GMT
Never fight back. When a bigger bully walks into your home declaring it is his, give it to him. You can fight back as long as you can, but at some point - particularly in international relations - you need to do a real assessment on capability.
You might want to that before hand too; sometimes giving up your wallet might be the best outcome.
No one did that in case (including Russia who - despite the rhetoric - isn't looking like some world beater). I'm sure the people of Ukraine are grateful for your allowing them to fight back. |
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demos
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Post by demos on Feb 12, 2024 15:27:15 GMT
I'm sure the people of Ukraine are grateful for your allowing them to fight back. The one's that stayed. The one's who fled to escape conscription, maybe not.
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Post by MojoJojo on Feb 12, 2024 15:54:11 GMT
I'm sure the people of Ukraine are grateful for your allowing them to fight back. The one's that stayed. The one's who fled to escape conscription, maybe not. Good point. I've been a supporter since the beginning but even my full-throated support took a hit when Zelenskyy canceled the national elections due to Martial Law. To hell with that! Wanna be a democracy? Then you hold elections. That cost is built-in and needs paid. apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-birthday-grenade-b1b82e4f84eb5a39286d1500cf49fcd1 |
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