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Post by Mercy for All on Sept 30, 2021 18:04:35 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2021 20:28:53 GMT
"Troll farms"? Cui bono?
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Post by Running Deer on Oct 1, 2021 2:03:49 GMT
I'm not sure if the important word here is "Christian" or "American". American culture is very susceptible to all sorts of con artist, flim-flam, snake oil, fake prophet, get rich quick, Ponzi scheme, faith healer, cult leader, magic elixir nonsense. Hell, the country nearly gave unlimited power to a spoiled little rich brat who was famous precisely because he was a con artist. My wife - who doesn't truck in any of this crap - complains about her Facebook feed being a non-stop stream of essential oils, astrology, magical positive thinking, and so on. I don't really see why American Christianity would be significantly different, especially considering that 70% of the country claims to be Christian, and another huge chunk was raised in Christianity or had once belonged to it.
Plenty of American works explore our love of the con - Elmer Gantry, O Brother Where Art Thou, Huck Finn, The Music Man, The Great Gatsby - but none of them draw any strong conclusions about the root causes. Americans mock earnest scholarship and dedicated study but fall all over themselves for absurd promises. I've never understood it.
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Post by Mercy for All on Oct 4, 2021 22:48:41 GMT
I'm not sure if the important word here is "Christian" or "American". American culture is very susceptible to all sorts of con artist, flim-flam, snake oil, fake prophet, get rich quick, Ponzi scheme, faith healer, cult leader, magic elixir nonsense. Hell, the country nearly gave unlimited power to a spoiled little rich brat who was famous precisely because he was a con artist. My wife - who doesn't truck in any of this crap - complains about her Facebook feed being a non-stop stream of essential oils, astrology, magical positive thinking, and so on. I don't really see why American Christianity would be significantly different, especially considering that 70% of the country claims to be Christian, and another huge chunk was raised in Christianity or had once belonged to it. Plenty of American works explore our love of the con - Elmer Gantry, O Brother Where Art Thou, Huck Finn, The Music Man, The Great Gatsby - but none of them draw any strong conclusions about the root causes. Americans mock earnest scholarship and dedicated study but fall all over themselves for absurd promises. I've never understood it. See I'm not sure about that. Anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists are over-represented among evangelical Christians. I think that evangelical Christianity has informed American Exceptionalism, and that its spiritualized "us vs. them" mentality can feed gullibility as well. Further, evangelical Christianity finds theological meaning in the apocalyptic literature of the Bible, which informs dispensationalism. I believe that apocalyptic literature is aimed at the suffering church longing for rescue. But when you're not suffering, when you're not persecuted, and your theology demands that you are, you have to "invent persecution" to maintain cohesion. Otherwise you have to redefine your theology. Evangelical Christians (both "real ones" and "ECINOs" (those defined more by political bent than theology)) are loathe to redefine their own theology or raison d'être. And so we double down on this interpretation, buttressed by a Scottish Realist philosophy and a "flat" reading of the text, which itself is seen as equivalent to the biblical text (which itself has been determined to be inerrant). I believe the appropriate solution for North American Christianity is to be more informed by non-apocalyptic prophetic texts, which are aimed at the religious community in power, corrupted by idolatry. That swing would inform a more accurate self-identity and evaluation of the cultural context. That's my take from the inside anyway. |
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bama beau
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Fish will piss anywhere. They just live in water.
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Post by bama beau on Oct 5, 2021 4:41:51 GMT
If one can believe what the Christian Right spews as
the religion of Jesus Christ, one can believe anything.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2021 16:31:17 GMT
Being gullible is the essence of Christianity.
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Post by Fiddler on Oct 7, 2021 13:46:05 GMT
Christianity ended in 325AD at which point Romanized Christianity.. the "Christianity" we know today.. took over..
Millions were inspired by the gladius and pilum to "convert" ..
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Post by Mercy for All on Oct 7, 2021 17:39:05 GMT
Christianity ended in 325AD at which point Romanized Christianity.. the "Christianity" we know today.. took over..
Millions were inspired by the gladius and pilum to "convert" ..
Except that Christianity has continued despite Romanized Christianity. There's a reason that many of the people executed by the Roman Catholic Church and other institutionalized churches were Christians. You have: Jan Hus William Tyndale Huguenots Albigenses Etc. As well as those who were not martyred: Menno Simons St. Francis of Assisi Etc. You're simply presenting the false dichotomy that because the Church was politicized and pursued power, every Christian became politicized. Even the current Pope seems to be resisting that temptation to inappropriate power. |
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Post by Fiddler on Oct 7, 2021 18:14:47 GMT
Christianity ended in 325AD at which point Romanized Christianity.. the "Christianity" we know today.. took over..
Millions were inspired by the gladius and pilum to "convert" ..
Except that Christianity has continued despite Romanized Christianity.
Apparently I need to repeat the "gladius and pilum" part ..
Seems "Christianity" as would be recognized by nascent Christians is exceedingly rare .. Certainly not the predominate variety.
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Post by Mercy for All on Oct 7, 2021 18:48:52 GMT
Except that Christianity has continued despite Romanized Christianity.
Apparently I need to repeat the "gladius and pilum" part ..
Seems "Christianity" as would be recognized by nascent Christians is exceedingly rare .. Certainly not the predominate variety.
You do understand how many Christians are either anti-violence or full on pacifist, right? |
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Post by Fiddler on Oct 7, 2021 18:52:08 GMT
Apparently I need to repeat the "gladius and pilum" part ..
Seems "Christianity" as would be recognized by nascent Christians is exceedingly rare .. Certainly not the predominate variety.
You do understand how many Christians are either anti-violence or full on pacifist, right?
I don't doubt that there are many.. There are more of the Romanized ones ..
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Post by Running Deer on Oct 7, 2021 22:33:49 GMT
See I'm not sure about that. Anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists are over-represented among evangelical Christians. I think that evangelical Christianity has informed American Exceptionalism, and that its spiritualized "us vs. them" mentality can feed gullibility as well. It's fair to say evangelical Christianity has informed American Exceptionalism. However, America's love of con artists and its ridiculously-inflated self-image predate evangelical Christianity's rise. I think that's why Evangelicalism took such strong hold here. |
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Post by Mercy for All on Oct 7, 2021 22:56:55 GMT
See I'm not sure about that. Anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists are over-represented among evangelical Christians. I think that evangelical Christianity has informed American Exceptionalism, and that its spiritualized "us vs. them" mentality can feed gullibility as well. It's fair to say evangelical Christianity has informed American Exceptionalism. However, America's love of con artists and its ridiculously-inflated self-image predate evangelical Christianity's rise. I think that's why Evangelicalism took such strong hold here. It would also be fair to say that "American Evangelicalism" as it is recognized here is not representative of either a strict definition of evangelicalism or global evangelicalism. |
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Post by Running Deer on Oct 8, 2021 22:15:26 GMT
It's fair to say evangelical Christianity has informed American Exceptionalism. However, America's love of con artists and its ridiculously-inflated self-image predate evangelical Christianity's rise. I think that's why Evangelicalism took such strong hold here. It would also be fair to say that "American Evangelicalism" as it is recognized here is not representative of either a strict definition of evangelicalism or global evangelicalism.
How so? The US is, far and away, the country most influenced by evangelicalism. The UK is a distant second. Until very recently, there was little appetite for evangelicalism outside the Anglosphere, though that is rapidly changing.
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Post by Mercy for All on Oct 9, 2021 2:27:38 GMT
It would also be fair to say that "American Evangelicalism" as it is recognized here is not representative of either a strict definition of evangelicalism or global evangelicalism.
How so? The US is, far and away, the country most influenced by evangelicalism. The UK is a distant second. Until very recently, there was little appetite for evangelicalism outside the Anglosphere, though that is rapidly changing.
That's not true. There are evangelicals around the world. worldea.org/And they likely don't "look like" what you think of as "evangelical." There are four primary characteristics of evangelical, as described by a Christian historian (named Bebbington): 1) "Crucicentrism": the atoning work of Christ is central. 2) Biblically informed: the Bible is considered authoritative (in contrast to, say, the parallel emphasis on tradition in the Roman Catholic Church). 3) Conversionist: emphasis on evangelism and individual conversion (e.g., in contrast to, say, "being born a Christian"). 4) Activism: being socially concerned (it's an irony that "evangelicals" were at the forefront of the abolitionist and suffrage movements, which seems a contrast to what you might thing based the perception of today's evangelicals in North America). Notice no emphasis on politics, conservatism, maintaining the status quo, pursuing power, etc. In fact, I believe there was a recent publication in which African evangelicals decried the misperception of evangelicalism instigated by the influence of "American evangelicals." |
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Post by Running Deer on Oct 13, 2021 1:43:21 GMT
There are certainly evangelicals outside the US and UK. I didn't say there wasn't. But it's quite true that the US is, far and away, the country the most influenced by evangelical Christianity. It's also true that evangelical Christianity was relatively rare outside the Anglosphere until recently. If evangelicals outside the US do not have the fascist politics of American evangelicals, that's a good thing indeed.
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bama beau
Legend
Fish will piss anywhere. They just live in water.
Posts: 11,582
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Post by bama beau on Oct 14, 2021 5:20:32 GMT
There are certainly evangelicals outside the US and UK. I didn't say there wasn't. But it's quite true that the US is, far and away, the country the most influenced by evangelical Christianity. It's also true that evangelical Christianity was relatively rare outside the Anglosphere until recently. If evangelicals outside the US do not have the fascist politics of American evangelicals, that's a good thing indeed. It might also be fair to say that MFA's perspective, taken from his particular position inside the religion, might be far more detailed than would the perspective of a person outside looking in. He sees four kinds of what we are calling evangelicalism, while most people see no more than one. In fact, it might be that more people are unaware of evangelicalism at all than are aware of it from either perspective. |
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Post by elmerfudd on Nov 1, 2021 20:22:15 GMT
Been gone a while. Poking around and saw this.
Being a member and regular attender of a self proclaimed evangelical church, and seeing how many if not most alleged evangelicals behaved themselves during the trump years and even now, my personal opinion is that most of them are not evangelical nor do they even know what the term means. I doubt some of them are even Christian.
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Post by CadesCove on Nov 1, 2021 20:28:34 GMT
Been gone a while. Poking around and saw this. Being a member and regular attender of a self proclaimed evangelical church, and seeing how many if not most alleged evangelicals behaved themselves during the trump years and even now, my personal opinion is that most of them are not evangelical nor do they even know what the term means. I doubt some of them are even Christian. This is news to you? |
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Post by elmerfudd on Nov 1, 2021 23:34:39 GMT
Been gone a while. Poking around and saw this. Being a member and regular attender of a self proclaimed evangelical church, and seeing how many if not most alleged evangelicals behaved themselves during the trump years and even now, my personal opinion is that most of them are not evangelical nor do they even know what the term means. I doubt some of them are even Christian. This is news to you? No, not really. |
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