petep
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Post by petep on Jul 27, 2020 16:57:01 GMT
I own rental properties...have for decades...some are vacation rentals, some student and some residential....over 30 years of doing this, there are people I will not rent to...I won't say who or why....I'll say some is geography based (i.e. no one from new york city)....
and it is based on decades of seeing distinct patterns and experience.
As an example, every single person/group I've ever rented to from new york city, regardless of color, is a pain in the butt...always trying to get a better deal, always threatening to use sites like VRBO to threaten extort you for a price reduction etc...
My sample group is thousands of people over the decades...
so would you say that is more "racist" or "biased" based on actual experience?
Is bias valid? When does bias cross the line and become racist, or something that looks racist?
Keep in mind that going into it, I never had any preconceived notion or bias, which is why I've rented to such a diverse group over the year...geography, race, religion etc..its only based on experience that has introduced my bias and filter.
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Post by Mercy for All on Jul 27, 2020 17:02:28 GMT
Bias is natural. Not sure where the line is when it becomes unjust. Not every New Yorker (presumably) matches your experience...
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freonbale
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Post by freonbale on Jul 27, 2020 17:05:31 GMT
I own rental properties...have for decades...some are vacation rentals, some student and some residential....over 30 years of doing this, there are people I will not rent to...I won't say who or why....I'll say some is geography based (i.e. no one from new york city).... and it is based on decades of seeing distinct patterns and experience. As an example, every single person/group I've ever rented to from new york city, regardless of color, is a pain in the butt...always trying to get a better deal, always threatening to use sites like VRBO to threaten extort you for a price reduction etc... My sample group is thousands of people over the decades... so would you say that is more "racist" or "biased" based on actual experience? Is bias valid? When does bias cross the line and become racist, or something that looks racist? Keep in mind that going into it, I never had any preconceived notion or bias, which is why I've rented to such a diverse group over the year...geography, race, religion etc..its only based on experience that has introduced my bias and filter. I don't see racism in your decision, because being a New Yorker is not a race.
But even if you would not rent to Black New Yorker's, exclusively, I would still not consider that racism IF the reason was that they were a pain in the ass.
A Racist would say something like Black people from New York are dirty and dishonest, and therefore I will not allow them to rent from me.
Freon
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Odysseus
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Post by Odysseus on Jul 27, 2020 17:18:58 GMT
I own rental properties...have for decades...some are vacation rentals, some student and some residential....over 30 years of doing this, there are people I will not rent to...I won't say who or why....I'll say some is geography based (i.e. no one from new york city).... and it is based on decades of seeing distinct patterns and experience.
PP says, "I won't say who or why", and then goes on to say he won't rent to people from NYC. So obviously that geographic discrimination is something he thinks is legal and acceptable, but his OTHER reasons he'll keep secret. Methinks those OTHER reasons are rooted in racism, sexism, or other illegal and unacceptable forms of discrimination in his rental policies.
In other words, PP isn't fooling anybody here. Well, maybe himself.
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petep
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Post by petep on Jul 27, 2020 17:24:13 GMT
I own rental properties...have for decades...some are vacation rentals, some student and some residential....over 30 years of doing this, there are people I will not rent to...I won't say who or why....I'll say some is geography based (i.e. no one from new york city).... and it is based on decades of seeing distinct patterns and experience. As an example, every single person/group I've ever rented to from new york city, regardless of color, is a pain in the butt...always trying to get a better deal, always threatening to use sites like VRBO to threaten extort you for a price reduction etc... My sample group is thousands of people over the decades... so would you say that is more "racist" or "biased" based on actual experience? Is bias valid? When does bias cross the line and become racist, or something that looks racist? Keep in mind that going into it, I never had any preconceived notion or bias, which is why I've rented to such a diverse group over the year...geography, race, religion etc..its only based on experience that has introduced my bias and filter. I don't see racism in your decision, because being a New Yorker is not a race.
But even if you would not rent to Black New Yorker's, exclusively, I would still not consider that racism IF the reason was that they were a pain in the ass.
A Racist would say something like Black people from New York are dirty and dishonest, and therefore I will not allow them to rent from me.
Freon
I appreciate that response... Its seems like a fine line though? On the one hand, you are saying, I think, my experience is people this group are more of a pain etc relative to others, so I'm using that as a basis for not renting to them...which is OK... but when does it become "racist"...is it OK to not rent to a person if they are from NYC, but wrong if they are jewish or eastern european or black? Is it fair for the black person who has a host of experiences in the south, in some redneck hick place, to be wary and untrusting of people from that area....I would think that would be reasonable. |
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petep
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Post by petep on Jul 27, 2020 17:26:17 GMT
I own rental properties...have for decades...some are vacation rentals, some student and some residential....over 30 years of doing this, there are people I will not rent to...I won't say who or why....I'll say some is geography based (i.e. no one from new york city).... and it is based on decades of seeing distinct patterns and experience.
PP says, "I won't say who or why", and then goes on to say he won't rent to people from NYC. So obviously that geographic discrimination is something he thinks is legal and acceptable, but his OTHER reasons he'll keep secret. Methinks those OTHER reasons are rooted in racism, sexism, or other illegal and unacceptable forms of discrimination in his rental policies.
In other words, PP isn't fooling anybody here. Well, maybe himself.
I gave that as an example to show its based on a business decision....I often read young people's twitter posts...and I've not rented to white and black guys and girls based on their posts...ie partying for week straight, missed work or classes for a week too much partying etc... |
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Odysseus
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Post by Odysseus on Jul 27, 2020 17:28:40 GMT
It's been a while since I've rented, but I recall the law around here is that if you advertise your property (like in the newspaper or campus housing office) you cannot discriminate on any number of protected categories (race, gender, disability, etc).
And in a college town where landlords have that "no more than x number of unrelated persons in a dwelling" dodge, they actively discriminate against college students just trying to survive. Nasty.
So, when is PP going to reveal his hidden reasons for discriminating against renters, besides the one that he thinks is legal and socially acceptable?
Hmmpf?
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petep
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Post by petep on Jul 27, 2020 17:32:38 GMT
It's been a while since I've rented, but I recall the law around here is that if you advertise your property (like in the newspaper or campus housing office) you cannot discriminate on any number of protected categories (race, gender, disability, etc).
And in a college town where landlords have that "no more than x number of unrelated persons in a dwelling" dodge, they actively discriminate against college students just trying to survive. Nasty.
So, when is PP going to reveal his hidden reasons for discriminating against renters, besides the one that he thinks is legal and socially acceptable?
Hmmpf?
nit wit, can you read or are you stupid...I'm the one saying with other landlords and students its OK for 4 unrelated students to rent a 4 bedroom home. Its the wealthy democrat liberals running the town that are trying to ban the rights of landlords to rent their homes to more than 3 unrelated people and significantly raising the rents and bar per student who wish to rent...and 100% of these students are adults over age 18... how can you miss this??? |
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Post by freonbale on Jul 27, 2020 17:33:28 GMT
I don't see racism in your decision, because being a New Yorker is not a race.
But even if you would not rent to Black New Yorker's, exclusively, I would still not consider that racism IF the reason was that they were a pain in the ass.
A Racist would say something like Black people from New York are dirty and dishonest, and therefore I will not allow them to rent from me.
Freon
I appreciate that response... Its seems like a fine line though? On the one hand, you are saying, I think, my experience is people this group are more of a pain etc relative to others, so I'm using that as a basis for not renting to them...which is OK... but when does it become "racist"...is it OK to not rent to a person if they are from NYC, but wrong if they are jewish or eastern european or black? Is it fair for the black person who has a host of experiences in the south, in some redneck hick place, to be wary and untrusting of people from that area....I would think that would be reasonable. Your own response shows that it is NOT a fine line. On the one hand, you make your decision based on experience from a geographical area and a large sample size (you said thousands), and then you compare it to the same decision based on ethnicity (Jewish/European) or race (Black).
The black person not trusting ANYONE from that area makes sense, because again, it is not based on a select group from that area, but the whole thing. Very much like your choice not to rent to New Yorkers, even though I'll bet even you would agree there probably are some nice ones.
Freon
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petep
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Post by petep on Jul 27, 2020 17:43:17 GMT
I appreciate that response... Its seems like a fine line though? On the one hand, you are saying, I think, my experience is people this group are more of a pain etc relative to others, so I'm using that as a basis for not renting to them...which is OK... but when does it become "racist"...is it OK to not rent to a person if they are from NYC, but wrong if they are jewish or eastern european or black? Is it fair for the black person who has a host of experiences in the south, in some redneck hick place, to be wary and untrusting of people from that area....I would think that would be reasonable. Your own response shows that it is NOT a fine line. On the one hand, you make your decision based on experience from a geographical area and a large sample size (you said thousands), and then you compare it to the same decision based on ethnicity (Jewish/European) or race (Black).
The black person not trusting ANYONE from that area makes sense, because again, it is not based on a select group from that area, but the whole thing. Very much like your choice not to rent to New Yorkers, even though I'll bet even you would agree there probably are some nice ones.
Freon
yes, you are absolutely correct there are some very nice new yorkers...I know some personally and I'd rent to them...to me its just a business decision...I've always had a surplus of those desiring to rent, so I choose based on who is most likely to pay, not complain, not try to extort me, not trash the place BUT, I know over the years, the groups that do these things, relative to others, based on decades of personal experience...so in my case, the business decision is to avoid renting to them...it may suck for the nice person from NYC that I won't consider them, and of course they never know why...but in my mind, if out of the last 10 from NYC all 10 were a pain, and none of the 10 from RI were, why would I take the risk... |
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Odysseus
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Post by Odysseus on Jul 27, 2020 17:47:06 GMT
It's been a while since I've rented, but I recall the law around here is that if you advertise your property (like in the newspaper or campus housing office) you cannot discriminate on any number of protected categories (race, gender, disability, etc).
And in a college town where landlords have that "no more than x number of unrelated persons in a dwelling" dodge, they actively discriminate against college students just trying to survive. Nasty.
So, when is PP going to reveal his hidden reasons for discriminating against renters, besides the one that he thinks is legal and socially acceptable?
Hmmpf?
nit wit, can you read or are you stupid...I'm the one saying with other landlords and students its OK for 4 unrelated students to rent a 4 bedroom home. Its the wealthy democrat liberals running the town that are trying to ban the rights of landlords to rent their homes to more than 3 unrelated people and significantly raising the rents and bar per student who wish to rent...and 100% of these students are adults over age 18... how can you miss this???
How about posting some PROOF that it's the "wealthy democrat liberals running the town" who are responsible for bans on student renters? You've provided none.
And you still haven't detailed your hidden reasons for discriminating against certain types of renters. You know, the ones you say "I won't say why or who" about...
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petep
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Post by petep on Jul 28, 2020 14:48:52 GMT
nit wit, can you read or are you stupid...I'm the one saying with other landlords and students its OK for 4 unrelated students to rent a 4 bedroom home. Its the wealthy democrat liberals running the town that are trying to ban the rights of landlords to rent their homes to more than 3 unrelated people and significantly raising the rents and bar per student who wish to rent...and 100% of these students are adults over age 18... how can you miss this???
How about posting some PROOF that it's the "wealthy democrat liberals running the town" who are responsible for bans on student renters? You've provided none.
And you still haven't detailed your hidden reasons for discriminating against certain types of renters. You know, the ones you say "I won't say why or who" about...
I can't believe you are this clueless about state politics... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhode_Island_Democratic_Partythese are all democrats trying to ban for 4 and now 3 unrelated people living together...its plain as day...why such ignorance...this is what democrats do... www.ricentral.com/narragansett_times/town-dismisses-four-unrelated-appeal/article_8df78e70-758f-11e8-b9f3-6fdf054a6922.html |
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Odysseus
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Post by Odysseus on Jul 28, 2020 19:31:47 GMT
So, PP is in league with the ACLU.
Who knew?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2020 19:59:09 GMT
I own rental properties...have for decades...some are vacation rentals, some student and some residential....over 30 years of doing this, there are people I will not rent to...I won't say who or why....I'll say some is geography based (i.e. no one from new york city).... and it is based on decades of seeing distinct patterns and experience. As an example, every single person/group I've ever rented to from new york city, regardless of color, is a pain in the butt...always trying to get a better deal, always threatening to use sites like VRBO to threaten extort you for a price reduction etc... My sample group is thousands of people over the decades... so would you say that is more "racist" or "biased" based on actual experience? Is bias valid? When does bias cross the line and become racist, or something that looks racist? Keep in mind that going into it, I never had any preconceived notion or bias, which is why I've rented to such a diverse group over the year...geography, race, religion etc..its only based on experience that has introduced my bias and filter. I used to be hostile to landlords. I rented from this one old man who checked on us at least once every other day. Drove me fucking crazy. Between that and landlords who don't respond to problems or take care of air conditioners, I had a very low opinion of "landlords." Then I became a tax accountant and spent ten years working closely with property owners and landlords. I got a whole new perspective on the issue. Tenants can be some of the worst human beings alive. The shit they do, and the razor thin margins most people who own properties are operating on were eye opening experiences for me. These are often people who are buying properties as retirement investments and hoping to have the mortgages paid off by the time they retire. Tenants often get in the way of that. You can have 5 great tenants in a row, 5 years running. 1 bad tenant can blow 5 years of profit margins. Queshank |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2020 20:00:10 GMT
I own rental properties...have for decades...some are vacation rentals, some student and some residential....over 30 years of doing this, there are people I will not rent to...I won't say who or why....I'll say some is geography based (i.e. no one from new york city).... and it is based on decades of seeing distinct patterns and experience. As an example, every single person/group I've ever rented to from new york city, regardless of color, is a pain in the butt...always trying to get a better deal, always threatening to use sites like VRBO to threaten extort you for a price reduction etc... My sample group is thousands of people over the decades... so would you say that is more "racist" or "biased" based on actual experience? Is bias valid? When does bias cross the line and become racist, or something that looks racist? Keep in mind that going into it, I never had any preconceived notion or bias, which is why I've rented to such a diverse group over the year...geography, race, religion etc..its only based on experience that has introduced my bias and filter. I used to be hostile to landlords. I rented from this one old man who checked on us at least once every other day. Drove me fucking crazy. Between that and landlords who don't respond to problems or take care of air conditioners, I had a very low opinion of "landlords." Then I became a tax accountant and spent ten years working closely with property owners and landlords. I got a whole new perspective on the issue. Tenants can be some of the worst human beings alive. The shit they do, and the razor thin margins most people who own properties are operating on were eye opening experiences for me. These are often people who are buying properties as retirement investments and hoping to have the mortgages paid off by the time they retire. Tenants often get in the way of that. You can have 5 great tenants in a row, 5 years running. 1 bad tenant can blow 5 years of profit margins. Queshank I should point out, that those profit margins are what landlords use to pay for broken air conditioners and replace carpet and clean when shitty tenants move. Before a Typical_Leftist_001 jumps in to say "fuck their profit margins!" Queshank |
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freonbale
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Post by freonbale on Jul 28, 2020 20:02:23 GMT
I used to be hostile to landlords. I rented from this one old man who checked on us at least once every other day. Drove me fucking crazy. Between that and landlords who don't respond to problems or take care of air conditioners, I had a very low opinion of "landlords." Then I became a tax accountant and spent ten years working closely with property owners and landlords. I got a whole new perspective on the issue. Tenants can be some of the worst human beings alive. The shit they do, and the razor thin margins most people who own properties are operating on were eye opening experiences for me. These are often people who are buying properties as retirement investments and hoping to have the mortgages paid off by the time they retire. Tenants often get in the way of that. You can have 5 great tenants in a row, 5 years running. 1 bad tenant can blow 5 years of profit margins. Queshank I should point out, that those profit margins are what landlords use to pay for broken air conditioners and replace carpet and clean when shitty tenants move. Before a Typical_Leftist_001 jumps in to say "fuck their profit margins!" Queshank Que, where does this notion of 'Left' being anti-capitalism come from?
Some of our wealthiest moguls lean Left.
We're not against capitalism, we are against UNFAIRNESS within the system.
Freon
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2020 20:38:05 GMT
I should point out, that those profit margins are what landlords use to pay for broken air conditioners and replace carpet and clean when shitty tenants move. Before a Typical_Leftist_001 jumps in to say "fuck their profit margins!" Queshank Que, where does this notion of 'Left' being anti-capitalism come from?
Some of our wealthiest moguls lean Left.
We're not against capitalism, we are against UNFAIRNESS within the system.
Freon
You need to tell that to Typical_Leftist_001-1000000 then. You and Fiddler should get on that. You both seem to have missed how your attitudes are no longer shared, nor in fact welcome in leftist circles. Queshank |
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freonbale
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Post by freonbale on Jul 28, 2020 21:22:57 GMT
Que, where does this notion of 'Left' being anti-capitalism come from?
Some of our wealthiest moguls lean Left.
We're not against capitalism, we are against UNFAIRNESS within the system.
Freon
You need to tell that to Typical_Leftist_001-1000000 then. You and Fiddler should get on that. You both seem to have missed how your attitudes are no longer shared, nor in fact welcome in leftist circles. Queshank I do not feel at all unwelcome. Is that a narrative you need to believe to support your point of view?
Freon
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2020 22:04:10 GMT
You need to tell that to Typical_Leftist_001-1000000 then. You and Fiddler should get on that. You both seem to have missed how your attitudes are no longer shared, nor in fact welcome in leftist circles. Queshank I do not feel at all unwelcome. Is that a narrative you need to believe to support your point of view?
Freon
When did you stop beating your wife? The Democrats are playing the same dangerous game with their base the Republicans played that led to Trump. Thinking they can harness and surf that radicalized and somewhat loopy base. You are playing deliberately ignorant if you haven't noticed the number of leftists who believe otherwise. Your response has echoes of Fiddler believing all is well on the left, nothing to see here. Because people on the left seem to have so much trouble seeing it, the Democrats are not the left. So get that out of your strangely insular bubble. Is AOC not the left? Are you unaware of the influence she is exerting? Ocasio-Cortez: 'Capitalism is irredeemable' - The Hill - 3/10/19"To me, capitalism is irredeemable," she added, arguing that capitalism's goals come at a cost to people and the environment, Bloomberg reported.
The congresswoman, who has described herself as a democratic socialist, added during her interview that "we should be scared."
"Just as there’s all this fearmongering that government is going to take over every corporation and government is going to take over every business or every form of production, we should be scared right now because corporations have taken over our government," she said.Where do I get the idea the left is anti capitalism? Why...from the left of course. And if you think you're going to make any headway convincing them a landlord needs to turn a profit, I think you're mistaken. Been there, done that. But I didn't bring up anti capitalism sentiment. That's your spin. I brought up anti landlord sentiment. Queshank |
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Post by freonbale on Jul 28, 2020 22:17:43 GMT
I do not feel at all unwelcome. Is that a narrative you need to believe to support your point of view?
Freon
When did you stop beating your wife? The Democrats are playing the same dangerous game with their base the Republicans played that led to Trump. Thinking they can harness and surf that radicalized and somewhat loopy base. You are playing deliberately ignorant if you haven't noticed the number of leftists who believe otherwise. Your response has echoes of Fiddler believing all is well on the left, nothing to see here. Because people on the left seem to have so much trouble seeing it, the Democrats are not the left. So get that out of your strangely insular bubble. Is AOC not the left? Are you unaware of the influence she is exerting? Ocasio-Cortez: 'Capitalism is irredeemable' - The Hill - 3/10/19"To me, capitalism is irredeemable," she added, arguing that capitalism's goals come at a cost to people and the environment, Bloomberg reported.
The congresswoman, who has described herself as a democratic socialist, added during her interview that "we should be scared."
"Just as there’s all this fearmongering that government is going to take over every corporation and government is going to take over every business or every form of production, we should be scared right now because corporations have taken over our government," she said.Where do I get the idea the left is anti capitalism? Why...from the left of course. And if you think you're going to make any headway convincing them a landlord needs to turn a profit, I think you're mistaken. Been there, done that. But I didn't bring up anti capitalism sentiment. That's your spin. I brought up anti landlord sentiment. Queshank Well Que, you are definitely consistent in seeing the world as black and white.
AOC is right in her comments. Capitalism DOES have a cost in terms of people, the environment, the superficiality of happiness-through-stuff, and on and on.
But while you hear socialism, I hear anger. While you hear anti-capitalism, I hear reform.
I have no problem with AOC, or any of the other far-Left representatives, because they exists as a direct result of Trump. They literally would not have been elected if not for him.
As long as the entire house is not full of them, they are a necessary voice for rallying the voters to move us in the opposite direction of Trump and the suckers that follow him. And since the far left are not a majority, there is no capability of actually getting to the final destination that you so fear. You make it sound like they represent 90% of the Left, when it is more like 5%.
Freon
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