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Post by Fiddler on Mar 31, 2021 17:32:46 GMT
"the invention of the airplane" 
And now we're back to nonsense..
Fizzle.. You can't first think zebras when you hear hoofbeats. Isaiah 60:16 says.."Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles" .. Do you think that means I have to breast feed you?
"fly as a cloud" does not predict the invention of aircraft.. It refers to large numbers of the converted that moved across Judea as a cloud.
If there is still a particle of reason left in that melon you call a head you ask yourself.. Does an airplane fly like a cloud? Was Jesus that bad at metaphor? Nitwits have been predicting the "end times" since the beginning of time.. Oddly enough .. we'll be sitting at a Milliways table when one of you fools eventually gets it right.
Sincerely.. Again I ask that you please find someone that will help you before you hurt yourself or someone else. Surely someone still has enough feelings for you to help you escape this trap you've set for yourself.
Do you have access to firearms?
Doesn't he live next to a gun store?
This is America.. Everyone lives next to a gun store.
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Post by Mercy for All on Mar 31, 2021 18:39:28 GMT
But Jesus couldn't "make Psalm 22 happen."
You can if you rewrite earlier texts or read into text what isn't there. Plus you have to acknowledge that New Testament authors often used OT references to lend a degree of veracity to their texts where needed. And there's the Jesus/Donkey example I give earlier.
Seeing fulfillment in biblical prophecy is akin to seeing bunnies in clouds. It's apophenia. It's seeing Jesus in a grilled cheese sandwich.
Are you suggesting Psalm 22 was re-written post-crucifixion? |
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Post by Fiddler on Mar 31, 2021 18:53:45 GMT
You can if you rewrite earlier texts or read into text what isn't there. Plus you have to acknowledge that New Testament authors often used OT references to lend a degree of veracity to their texts where needed. And there's the Jesus/Donkey example I give earlier.
Seeing fulfillment in biblical prophecy is akin to seeing bunnies in clouds. It's apophenia. It's seeing Jesus in a grilled cheese sandwich.
Are you suggesting Psalm 22 was re-written post-crucifixion? Why do you consider this a prophecy? Jesus would have been well aware of its existence.
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Post by Mercy for All on Mar 31, 2021 19:08:51 GMT
Are you suggesting Psalm 22 was re-written post-crucifixion? Why do you consider this a prophecy? Jesus would have been well aware of its existence.
I do consider it prophetic. Jesus was certainly aware of its existence. When he yelled out, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" he was essentially quoting the title. In Hebrew, titles would be the first word, phrase, or line. It wasn't called "Psalm 22." However, there's not much he could have done "make crucifixion the means of his death." Crucifixion didn't even exist when the Psalm was written, and yet: "they pierce my hands and my feet" (v. 16). There's nothing he could have done to make soldiers divide and gamble for his clothes (both of which happened). Finally, although his exclamation indicates association with abandonment, what most people miss is that later in this same Psalm, it says: "...he has not despised or scorned the suffering of the afflicted one; he has not hidden his face from him but has listened to his cry for help" (v. 24). So it's not just a cry of association or identification with the abandoned, but also a recognition that God does not "despise or scorn the suffering of the afflicted one." Certainly, there were things that Jesus "could make happen." This one? Not so much. |
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Post by Fiddler on Mar 31, 2021 20:08:07 GMT
Why do you consider this a prophecy? Jesus would have been well aware of its existence.
I do consider it prophetic. Jesus was certainly aware of its existence. When he yelled out, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" he was essentially quoting the title. In Hebrew, titles would be the first word, phrase, or line. It wasn't called "Psalm 22." However, there's not much he could have done "make crucifixion the means of his death." Crucifixion didn't even exist when the Psalm was written, and yet: "they pierce my hands and my feet" (v. 16). There's nothing he could have done to make soldiers divide and gamble for his clothes (both of which happened). Finally, although his exclamation indicates association with abandonment, what most people miss is that later in this same Psalm, it says: "...he has not despised or scorned the suffering of the afflicted one; he has not hidden his face from him but has listened to his cry for help" (v. 24). So it's not just a cry of association or identification with the abandoned, but also a recognition that God does not "despise or scorn the suffering of the afflicted one." Certainly, there were things that Jesus "could make happen." This one? Not so much.
Herodotus describes crucifixion in the 5th century BC.. "They nailed him to a plank and hung him up ... Psalm 22 is about the same age so crucifixion was known and practiced at the time of its writing..
It isn't hard to imagine people divvying up the possessions of the unfortunate in any age.
The Jewish see the psalm as an interpretation of the plight of the Hebrew people.
Scholars believe it was written in two parts with the redemption being added much later.
Plus where are the bulls and lions that Psalm 22 says are to be at the crucifixion? If we're going to pick "piercing of hands and feet" and 'casting lots" shouldn't we include them.
Sorry .. There's no prophecy there.
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Post by Mercy for All on Mar 31, 2021 21:47:10 GMT
I do consider it prophetic. Jesus was certainly aware of its existence. When he yelled out, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" he was essentially quoting the title. In Hebrew, titles would be the first word, phrase, or line. It wasn't called "Psalm 22." However, there's not much he could have done "make crucifixion the means of his death." Crucifixion didn't even exist when the Psalm was written, and yet: "they pierce my hands and my feet" (v. 16). There's nothing he could have done to make soldiers divide and gamble for his clothes (both of which happened). Finally, although his exclamation indicates association with abandonment, what most people miss is that later in this same Psalm, it says: "...he has not despised or scorned the suffering of the afflicted one; he has not hidden his face from him but has listened to his cry for help" (v. 24). So it's not just a cry of association or identification with the abandoned, but also a recognition that God does not "despise or scorn the suffering of the afflicted one." Certainly, there were things that Jesus "could make happen." This one? Not so much.
Herodotus describes crucifixion in the 5th century BC.. "They nailed him to a plank and hung him up ... Psalm 22 is about the same age so crucifixion was known and practiced at the time of its writing..
It isn't hard to imagine people divvying up the possessions of the unfortunate in any age.
The Jewish see the psalm as an interpretation of the plight of the Hebrew people.
Scholars believe it was written in two parts with the redemption being added much later.
Plus where are the bulls and lions that Psalm 22 says are to be at the crucifixion? If we're going to pick "piercing of hands and feet" and 'casting lots" shouldn't we include them.
Sorry .. There's no prophecy there.
Well, prophecy isn't exactly "prediction." But you have things that can happen and things that do happen. • For Jesus to be crucified, he would have to be killed by Romans. Jews stoned their heretics to death. • Bulls? I don't know that any interpreter, Christian or Jewish, would interpret that literally. Would they? Lions and other animals were typically understood as enemies of God's people (see Daniel for the most obvious Old Testament reference). • It's interesting that Jesus' clothes were both divided and gambled for. No? There is no indication, by the way, that this would be typical in Jewish culture. As for dating, many of the Psalms were used in Temple worship. The Temple was destroyed in 486CE while the earliest reference to crucifixion refers to an event seven years later than that, some 2900km away. So...you "could be right"? But man, you gotta have the stars aligning quite precisely to have a reference in a song (implying common usage) to a form of execution that didn't happen in that culture. Kind of stretches credibility, no? Unless you are forced to choose between two "unlikely scenarios," but you are dead set against one of them... Of course Jews are not going to interpret this Psalm as referring to Jesus, but to write it off as "the plight of the Hebrew people" is disingenuous. Some pre-Christian Jewish interpretation saw the Psalm referring to David, Hezekiah, or Esther, with at least one reference as such in the Babylonian Talmud (about 500CE). Just like the "prophecy of the Suffering Servant," post-Jesus Jewish interpreters moved away from older interpretations to distance themselves the associations Christians made between these kinds of texts and Jesus. Obviously. |
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Post by FEZZILLA on Apr 1, 2021 7:35:01 GMT
Psalm 22 from the Dead Sea Scrolls dssenglishbible.com/psalms%2022.htmIsaiah 53 from Dead Sea Scrolls dssenglishbible.com/isaiah%2053.htmIsaiah 60 Dead Sea Scrolls dssenglishbible.com/isaiah%2060.htmThese are surviving scrolls, some fragmented which we would expect from ancient Papyrus scrolls. Isaiah 60 mentions post-resurrection events that could not happen unless Jesus is the risen Lord (Isa.60:1-2). From the rise of Christendom (Isa.60:3) to the invention of the airplane (Isa.60:8) that takes Jews back to Israel from far away lands (Isa.60:9), to the gentile Christian nations ministering to Israel and aiding in the rebuilding of Israeli infrastructure (Isa.60:10). All the OT prophecies antedate the Christian era. |
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Post by FEZZILLA on Apr 1, 2021 7:47:10 GMT
Yet all the prophecies about Christ were fulfilled, including His crucifixion and resurrection. Not to mention prophecies concerning post-resurrection events from Isaiah about the greatness of the Gentile nations--Christendom (Isa.60:3), the invention of the airplane (Isa.60:8), and how the Jews traveled from all over the earth back to Israel (Isa.60:9), and how the Christian nations would help the Jews rebuild their infrastructure (Isa.60:10). Jesus also prophesied how people in the last days would be in Matt.24 and its all fulfilled in perfect chronology. There are numerous EndTime prophecies which are rapidly fulfilling right now--most of them being fulfilled by you atheists. Then show the world your Majority Text. You obviously have tons of them to call it the Majority Texts. So get them authenticated so you can be an authenticated Prophet. No? Don't want to prove your claim? "the invention of the airplane"
And now we're back to nonsense..
Fizzle.. You can't first think zebras when you hear hoofbeats. Isaiah 60:16 says.."Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles" .. Do you think that means I have to breast feed you?
"fly as a cloud" does not predict the invention of aircraft.. It refers to large numbers of the converted that moved across Judea as a cloud.
If there is still a particle of reason left in that melon you call a head you ask yourself.. Does an airplane fly like a cloud? Was Jesus that bad at metaphor? Nitwits have been predicting the "end times" since the beginning of time.. Oddly enough .. we'll be sitting at a Milliways table when one of you fools eventually gets it right.
Sincerely.. Again I ask that you please find someone that will help you before you hurt yourself or someone else. Surely someone still has enough feelings for you to help you escape this trap you've set for yourself.
Do you have access to firearms?
Before you pretend to refute the Bible you might want to understand Biblical language. No. Again there is figurative speech used in prophecy since Isaiah wrote this in 700 B.C. Yes it does. This is an actually picture of Isaiah 60:8-9 being fulfilled.  Furthermore, the prophecy is in connection with Deut.30:1-10 when the Jews, who had been scattered all over the world, would return to Israel. There are many prophecies here that need to be understood before proper exegesis can be applied. Yet, when the verse is understood in proper context, the invention of the airplane is inescapable. The prophecy was written by Isaiah. He compared the airplane to things known of his era in 700 B.C. And back then only birds and clouds flew in the sky. |
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Post by FEZZILLA on Apr 1, 2021 7:59:41 GMT
Doesn't he live next to a gun store?
This is America.. Everyone lives next to a gun store.
Really? I never seen many gun stores around and I live in a State where just about everybody owns guns. Gun stores have never been common. Even in parts of the State where guns are used the most there is only one gun store in that whole area. So please stop created false narratives on a topic that has nothing to do with guns. |
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bama beau
Legend
Fish will piss anywhere. They just live in water.
Posts: 11,579
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Post by bama beau on Apr 2, 2021 6:14:26 GMT
Plagiarism is what atheist have done the entire time. They borrowed a little from various pagan myths and then wrote their own books and called it their own discovery. Most people in Darwin's day did not have access to all the classical literature that we do today. But I have read plenty of classical literature and its all there...every doctrine of evolution theory as we know it today is all there. The only thing original about evolution theory is the name evolution. That's it. The theory was borrowed from pagan myths in the failed attempt to explain those myths scientifically.
So you don't understand plagiarism, you don't understand evolution. What do you understand?
From all indications? Blasphemy. LaFez thinks he speaks for God. |
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bama beau
Legend
Fish will piss anywhere. They just live in water.
Posts: 11,579
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Post by bama beau on Apr 2, 2021 6:15:31 GMT
Doesn't he live next to a gun store?
This is America.. Everyone lives next to a gun store.
Remember to tip your waitress. Good night! |
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Post by FEZZILLA on Apr 2, 2021 12:54:04 GMT
So you don't understand plagiarism, you don't understand evolution. What do you understand?
From all indications? Blasphemy. LaFez thinks he speaks for God. I don't recall ever saying that. But you claim you are god when you say there is no God. I totally do not believe you are a god. |
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bama beau
Legend
Fish will piss anywhere. They just live in water.
Posts: 11,579
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Post by bama beau on Apr 5, 2022 3:56:53 GMT
Welcome to the forum. Sorry to have to inform you michae1 that there hasn't been a Christian since AD 325. A perverted Romanized Christianity is the mythology you serve. Thanks for the welcome. I miss this guy. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2022 20:01:33 GMT
Plagiarism is very un Christian like. Yeah, same for violence, xenophobia, self-righteousness, witch-hunting, anathemas, the covering up of pedophilia... and much more...  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2022 20:02:43 GMT
This is America.. Everyone lives next to a gun store.
Remember to tip your waitress. Good night! They have waitresses in gun stores? |
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