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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2020 14:05:24 GMT
So this firestorm has been fun. The head of the police union in Chicago wrote a letter to President Trump requesting federal help in controlling the violence in Chicago. Given the murder rate, that is not all that unreasonable of a request. Of course, he did it while jabbing a thumb in the eye of the mayor (as quoted above). So the mayor responded calling the letter a "political stunt." It very well may be.
Politics aside, is Chicago in enough trouble to warrant federal help? NYC was pretty bad in the 90's before it turned around. But they had a mayor that wanted to fix the problems. I don't think Lightfoot is really trying to fix the problem right now.
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Post by stugatze on Jul 22, 2020 15:04:14 GMT
So this firestorm has been fun. The head of the police union in Chicago wrote a letter to President Trump requesting federal help in controlling the violence in Chicago. Given the murder rate, that is not all that unreasonable of a request. Of course, he did it while jabbing a thumb in the eye of the mayor (as quoted above). So the mayor responded calling the letter a "political stunt." It very well may be. Politics aside, is Chicago in enough trouble to warrant federal help? NYC was pretty bad in the 90's before it turned around. But they had a mayor that wanted to fix the problems. I don't think Lightfoot is really trying to fix the problem right now.
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The Chicago mayor is a hate-filled black racist herself, .. much like the dirty left, ... always stirring the pot and accusing Trump of racism, when she is the REAL racist herself. She is USELESS as a mayor and is totally incapable of stopping the violence and savagery in Chicago, but, if left up to her, .. no way will she ever agree to have Trump bring in the Federal Government, .. because, she WANTS people to believe FALSELY that somehow Trump and white folks are the cause of all the problems in her murderous city of Chicago. 
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demos
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Post by demos on Jul 22, 2020 15:16:31 GMT
Let's just nationalize the police. Problem solved.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2020 15:17:52 GMT
Let's just nationalize the police. Problem solved. Oh good gawd. That's all you lefties ever want to do is nationalize everything. Is there no perceived or real problem that doesn't warrant full blown authoritarian government in the eyes of the left? |
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demos
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Post by demos on Jul 22, 2020 15:19:39 GMT
Oh good gawd. That's all you lefties ever want to do is nationalize everything. Is there no perceived or real problem that doesn't warrant full blown authoritarian government in the eyes of the left? First, not a "lefite." Second, do you not realize that sending in federal law enforcement to handle local issues, such as is being proposed in the OP, is exactly what you're accusing lefties of? Hence my sarcastic post. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2020 15:27:51 GMT
Oh good gawd. That's all you lefties ever want to do is nationalize everything. Is there no perceived or real problem that doesn't warrant full blown authoritarian government in the eyes of the left? First, not a "lefite." Second, do you not realize that sending in federal law enforcement to handle local issues, such as is being proposed in the OP, is exactly what you're accusing lefties of? Hence my sarcastic post. I've seen your responses for well over a decade. You are a leftist. Temporary use of federal resources to solve problems is not the same as creating a new federal agency to replace local agencies. |
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demos
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Post by demos on Jul 22, 2020 15:44:57 GMT
I've seen your responses for well over a decade. You are a leftist. Temporary use of federal resources to solve problems is not the same as creating a new federal agency to replace local agencies. First, I'm a classical liberal (think Adam Smith, John Stuart Mill, etc. if that helps). Second, you either haven't actually read my responses, or you don't understand them. Because my arguments, specifically on this issue, are in the direction of less police, less criminalization not more. Pretty much the exact opposite of what you accused me of. Second, federal programs/involvement and temporary aren't really things that go together. |
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Odysseus
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Post by Odysseus on Jul 22, 2020 17:23:50 GMT
Not to mention that local police are NOT elected representatives of the people. In our democracy, elected representatives are supposed to be the ones to make such decisions.
This is clearly a push towards creating a police state, a move that all patriotic Americans should oppose.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2020 17:55:30 GMT
Let's just nationalize the police. Problem solved. That really is the left's end goal, isn't it? Our very own Brownshirts, ready to enforce the dictates of the left once they return to power.
Is Chicago out of control? Yes, it is and it doesn't take many guesses to figure out why:
Demographics for Auburn Gresham neighborhood in Chicago:
Demographics (2015) • White 0.50%
• Black 96.86%
• Hispanic 1.50%
• Asian 0.26%
• Other 0.88%
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petep
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Post by petep on Jul 22, 2020 18:33:13 GMT
I’d say let these cesspools burn but we are the ones who end up paying to rebuild after the brutal and horrific looting, rioting, stealing, killing and destruction is over. Of course in some places it never stops.
For all intents and purposes these people are stealing from each of us and should be dealt with as violent criminals
As a side when did we stop shooting looters during state or national emergencies?
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demos
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Post by demos on Jul 22, 2020 19:12:56 GMT
Is Chicago out of control? Yes, it is and it doesn't take many guesses to figure out why... What federal law is being broken there? Under what authority would they be aiding or assisting local law enforcement? As as long as we're talking about Chicago, we're also talking about the same city whose police department had a 'black site' (see here and here). |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2020 19:25:20 GMT
Is Chicago out of control? Yes, it is and it doesn't take many guesses to figure out why... What federal law is being broken there? Under what authority would they be aiding or assisting local law enforcement? As as long as we're talking about Chicago, we're also talking about the same city whose police department had a 'black site' (see here and here). Never said that I'm an advocate of federal intervention, which I am not. In the same breath, I'll ask. Are you in favor of also suspending any federal dollars flowing into the local government of Chicago? |
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demos
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Post by demos on Jul 22, 2020 19:33:59 GMT
Never said that I'm an advocate of federal intervention, which I am not. In the same breath, I'll ask. Are you in favor of also suspending any federal dollars flowing into the local government of Chicago? Funding that goes directly to the city, including law enforcement, or just federal funding in general? If you wanted to use that as an incentive to action, that might work, but that should be something taken up by Congress in appropriations legislation, not a unilateral action by the President imo. Even then that seems like a high-handed use of federal power and probably at best a short term solution without some changes in Chicago's political structure (i.e., voting for city officials who will address the issue a la New York as mentioned in the OP). |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2020 19:36:40 GMT
What federal law is being broken there? Under what authority would they be aiding or assisting local law enforcement? As as long as we're talking about Chicago, we're also talking about the same city whose police department had a 'black site' (see here and here). Never said that I'm an advocate of federal intervention, which I am not. In the same breath, I'll ask. Are you in favor of also suspending any federal dollars flowing into the local government of Chicago? Since the state of Illinois gives far more to the federal government than it receives, I'm guessing they would be just fine getting their money back and calling it a day. |
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demos
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Post by demos on Jul 22, 2020 20:14:15 GMT
SourceThe story from December notes that Detroit had seen a 14% drop in violent crime, so not sure why federal involvement was really needed. This doesn't appear - based on the reports - to be what any thing like what we're seeing in Portland though. Basically, funding, intel assistance and focusing on issues covered by federal law.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2020 20:42:42 GMT
Never said that I'm an advocate of federal intervention, which I am not. In the same breath, I'll ask. Are you in favor of also suspending any federal dollars flowing into the local government of Chicago? Funding that goes directly to the city, including law enforcement, or just federal funding in general? If you wanted to use that as an incentive to action, that might work, but that should be something taken up by Congress in appropriations legislation, not a unilateral action by the President imo. Even then that seems like a high-handed use of federal power and probably at best a short term solution without some changes in Chicago's political structure (i.e., voting for city officials who will address the issue a la New York as mentioned in the OP). The point is that the federal government is intertwined locally already, which I do not agree with. The federal government should never have been in the business of funding local government in any way, but it's rather dishonest for these municipalities to cry foul about government agents on their streets when their pockets are brimming with federal dollars. Pay us then go away seems to be their mantra.
I'm in favor of eliminating both the carrot and the stick as far as federal intervention in cities and even states is concerned.
With the carrot gone, the resulting chaos in Chicago would likely result in better leadership....i.e, spontaneous order in the classical liberal sense.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2020 20:46:48 GMT
Never said that I'm an advocate of federal intervention, which I am not. In the same breath, I'll ask. Are you in favor of also suspending any federal dollars flowing into the local government of Chicago? Since the state of Illinois gives far more to the federal government than it receives, I'm guessing they would be just fine getting their money back and calling it a day. I'd have no problem with that at all. Apply it across the board and we may once again see federal limitations as that should be. Other than the specific powers in the Constitution (NOT subsequent court decisions), the central government should minimize what it receives or doles out. |
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demos
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Post by demos on Jul 22, 2020 20:47:36 GMT
I'm in favor of eliminating both the carrot and the stick as far as federal intervention in cities and even states is concerned.
With the carrot gone, the resulting chaos in Chicago would likely result in better leadership....i.e, spontaneous order in the classical liberal sense.
Pretty much agree with that. |
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Odysseus
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Post by Odysseus on Jul 23, 2020 3:49:29 GMT
Calling in federal forces to a locality is legal only if requested by a state and/or local government.
Protecting federal property is the current excuse, and I'm not sure this will hold up in court when the Oregon state and Portland local legal challenges are heard.
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RWB
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Post by RWB on Jul 23, 2020 5:35:39 GMT
Not to mention that local police are NOT elected representatives of the people. In our democracy, elected representatives are supposed to be the ones to make such decisions.
This is clearly a push towards creating a police state, a move that all patriotic Americans should oppose.
SO you're a Racist no surprise there BUT why do you hate people of color so much? I'd be willing to bet you wear a white sheet and hood too. |
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