|
|
Post by RinsePrius on Oct 24, 2024 17:56:41 GMT
All joking aside, it is a good thing that generals, admirals, attorney generals, civil servants, etc have oaths to the country and the constitution and are not simply loyalists to one man. I'll take thick over thin institutions, with their checks and balances, over the German WWII alternative. Based on the repeated assassination plots and attempts, those German generals weren't that loyal. Not in some absolute sense, no, but their loyalty went beyond what would be optimal, in my view. |
|
|
|
Post by rabbitreborn on Oct 24, 2024 18:09:34 GMT
that the people he's in charge of should listen to him, and if they don't there should be some form of punishment. Interesting.. I believe that was in a letter to the Oberst at Treblinka .. I believe that’s how every military has functioned in human history. |
|
|
|
Post by rabbitreborn on Oct 24, 2024 18:12:38 GMT
Did he use guns to do that? Or lawyers trying to make a stupid case? Mostly lawyers but no doubt the protest at the capitol was also designed to pressure congress to reach the "right" conclusion. Basically it is the Brooks Bros Riot "Reloaded" with a faux legal foundation. I say "faux" because everyone but 1 Claremont nut agreed that the VP can't pick the president. People have the right to protest. Those that broke laws should be punished according to the law. Sometimes protests get out of hand by their very nature. This standard of politicians subtly (or not) encouraging protests that get out of hand should be applied equally or require actual evidence of the politician purposefully encouraging lawbreaking. |
|
|
|
Post by rabbitreborn on Oct 24, 2024 18:13:57 GMT
All joking aside, it is a good thing that generals, admirals, attorney generals, civil servants, etc have oaths to the country and the constitution and are not simply loyalists to one man. I'll take thick over thin institutions, with their checks and balances, over the German WWII alternative. What illegal order was given to the military? The pullback in Syria that was refused and then lied about? People should be in prison for that. Nobody is. Could be evidence that the president isn’t really running things. Joe Biden might be a good piece of evidence as well. If you want to live in a techno-bureaucracy, then that’s fine, but it isn’t liberalism. It’s Wilsonianism, certainly, but those are hardly interchangeable. |
|
thor
Legend
Posts: 20,410
|
Post by thor on Oct 24, 2024 18:24:35 GMT
"I also need the kind of genitals that Palmer had." Alas....  |
|
demos
Legend
Posts: 9,194
|
Post by demos on Oct 24, 2024 18:24:43 GMT
Not in some absolute sense, no, but their loyalty went beyond what would be optimal, in my view. The German high command and military leadership was not Hitler's biggest fan early on; his purge of the brownshirts is one thing that helped win them over. The Waffen SS adopted more of the personality cult of Hitler; they were more certainly more fanatical than the Wehrmacht. Their loyalty was primarily to Germany, leading them to both eventually serve Hitler and then later try to assassinate him.
The former is why I think large parts of the U.S. military would support an autocrat (see people like Flynn). They're committed to the nation, not necessarily a system of government.
|
|
thor
Legend
Posts: 20,410
|
Post by thor on Oct 24, 2024 18:26:42 GMT
Who is in charge of the generals of the United States? Raytheon, Lockheed, Boeing, etc.
I'm only being partially tongue-in-cheek.
Well, when they retire, anyway.  |
|
sokpupet
Legend
Go Dark Brandon!
Posts: 6,239
|
Post by sokpupet on Oct 24, 2024 20:26:32 GMT
“… In the meeting, Trump maintained a dignified posture and expressed sympathy to Guillén’s mother. “I saw what happened to your daughter Vanessa, who was a spectacular person, and respected and loved by everybody, including in the military,” Trump said. Later in the conversation, he made a promise: “If I can help you out with the funeral, I’ll help—I’ll help you with that,” he said. “I’ll help you out. Financially, I’ll help you.” …” “… Trump became angry. “It doesn’t cost 60,000 bucks to bury a fucking Mexican!” He turned to his chief of staff, Mark Meadows, and issued an order: “Don’t pay it!” Later that day, he was still agitated. “Can you believe it?” he said, according to a witness. “Fucking people, trying to rip me off.” …” “… Retired General Barry McCaffrey, a decorated Vietnam veteran, told me that Trump does not comprehend such traditional military virtues as honor and self-sacrifice. “The military is a foreign country to him. He doesn’t understand the customs or codes,” McCaffrey said. “It doesn’t penetrate. It starts with the fact that he thinks it’s foolish to do anything that doesn’t directly benefit himself.” …” Trump is a malignant narcissist. If he feels that someone is looked up to and he could never be like them, he cuts them down and belittles them. Any veteran voting for Trump supports a despot wannabe. www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2024/10/trump-military-generals-hitler/680327/You ignorant idiots do all you can to try and make Trump look bad. The truth is that a lot of times Trump talks way over your idiotic heads. What you said that Trump said what does it mean? How about if you knew history and truth you might know Trump will save you dumb ass. Yes, get rid of Biden and Giggles before things get even worse. After a failed bomb attempt to assassinate Hitler on his airplane, the conspirators focused on an existing contingency plan code-named Operation Valkyrie. This operation was originally designed to militarily combat potential civil unrest in Germany. The conspirators modified the plan for their own aims, with the intention of taking control of German cities, disarming the SS, and arresting key Nazi leaders in the wake of the plot. As part of the plan, Colonel Stauffenberg would travel to Hitler’s headquarters in East Prussia (the “Wolf’s Lair”), where he would place a briefcase containing two bombs under Hitler’s briefing table. Once Hitler died in the explosion, the military would claim the assassination had been part of an attempted coup by the Nazi Party and would then implement Operation Valkyrie. The Reserve Army would seize key installations in Berlin and arrest high-ranking Nazi officials, including Goebbels, while disarming loyal SS units. Meanwhile, upon receipt of the Valkyrie orders, Stülpnagel would consolidate army power in France as well. In the confusion of Hitler’s death, Göring, Himmler, and other major Nazi leaders would be arrested, and a new government established with Goerdeler as Chancellor and Beck as president. This government would then be positioned to negotiate an armistice to end the war with more generous terms for Germany. Trump makes himself look bad. You are a stooge for his cult. |
|
sokpupet
Legend
Go Dark Brandon!
Posts: 6,239
|
Post by sokpupet on Oct 24, 2024 20:27:37 GMT
“… In the meeting, Trump maintained a dignified posture and expressed sympathy to Guillén’s mother. “I saw what happened to your daughter Vanessa, who was a spectacular person, and respected and loved by everybody, including in the military,” Trump said. Later in the conversation, he made a promise: “If I can help you out with the funeral, I’ll help—I’ll help you with that,” he said. “I’ll help you out. Financially, I’ll help you.” …” “… Trump became angry. “It doesn’t cost 60,000 bucks to bury a fucking Mexican!” He turned to his chief of staff, Mark Meadows, and issued an order: “Don’t pay it!” Later that day, he was still agitated. “Can you believe it?” he said, according to a witness. “Fucking people, trying to rip me off.” …” “… Retired General Barry McCaffrey, a decorated Vietnam veteran, told me that Trump does not comprehend such traditional military virtues as honor and self-sacrifice. “The military is a foreign country to him. He doesn’t understand the customs or codes,” McCaffrey said. “It doesn’t penetrate. It starts with the fact that he thinks it’s foolish to do anything that doesn’t directly benefit himself.” …” Trump is a malignant narcissist. If he feels that someone is looked up to and he could never be like them, he cuts them down and belittles them. Any veteran voting for Trump supports a despot wannabe. www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2024/10/trump-military-generals-hitler/680327/Vanessa Guillen's sister took issue the Atlantic's story:
"Wow. I don’t appreciate how you are exploiting my sister’s death for politics- hurtful & disrespectful to the important changes she made for service members. President Donald Trump did nothing but show respect to my family & Vanessa. In fact, I voted for President Trump today." ( Source)
The family attorney has also spoke out about the Atlantic story - see here.
Meadows spokesperson said this absolutely did not happen. ( Source)
So, who exactly were the Atlantic's sources on this?
If she voted for Trump after how he views soldiers then she is just another member of his cult. |
|
HolyMoly
Legend
Posts: 3,077
Member is Online
|
Post by HolyMoly on Oct 24, 2024 20:31:54 GMT
"I also need the kind of genitals that Palmer had." Alas.... Over compensation for a lack in other areas.  |
|
|
|
Post by johnnybgood on Oct 24, 2024 20:33:16 GMT
Taking out of context
|
|
demos
Legend
Posts: 9,194
|
Post by demos on Oct 24, 2024 20:42:14 GMT
If she voted for Trump after how he views soldiers then she is just another member of his cult. That's one way to rationalize it. |
|
bama beau
Legend
Fish will piss anywhere. They just live in water.
Posts: 11,579
Member is Online
|
Post by bama beau on Oct 24, 2024 22:12:47 GMT
The main thing that comes to mind is failing the peaceful transfer of power. He wanted to light the constitution on fire (metaphorically speaking) and overturn the will of the voters. Did he use guns to do that? Or lawyers trying to make a stupid case? He used traitors and idiots. Try not to be either. |
|
|
|
Post by RinsePrius on Oct 24, 2024 23:34:59 GMT
All joking aside, it is a good thing that generals, admirals, attorney generals, civil servants, etc have oaths to the country and the constitution and are not simply loyalists to one man. I'll take thick over thin institutions, with their checks and balances, over the German WWII alternative. What illegal order was given to the military? The pullback in Syria that was refused and then lied about? People should be in prison for that. Nobody is. Could be evidence that the president isn’t really running things. Joe Biden might be a good piece of evidence as well. If you want to live in a techno-bureaucracy, then that’s fine, but it isn’t liberalism. It’s Wilsonianism, certainly, but those are hardly interchangeable. I am not aware of any such order. No claim on the table there. I do think there is some element of professional civil service that is a requirement of liberalism. There's a sweet spot where institutions are strong enough to hold powerful elements accountable to the law but not so strong that it threatens the liberal order itself, or individual liberty. Finding that balance is another story. |
|
|
|
Post by Fiddler on Oct 24, 2024 23:52:53 GMT
Interesting.. I believe that was in a letter to the Oberst at Treblinka .. I believe that’s how every military has functioned in human history. Ah yes.. I had forgotten about your espousal of relative morality .. .. |
|
|
|
Post by rabbitreborn on Oct 25, 2024 0:21:50 GMT
I believe that’s how every military has functioned in human history. Ah yes.. I had forgotten about your espousal of relative morality .. .. Wrong again. |
|
|
|
Post by thecitizen on Oct 25, 2024 0:33:34 GMT
The main thing that comes to mind is failing the peaceful transfer of power. He wanted to light the constitution on fire (metaphorically speaking) and overturn the will of the voters. Did he use guns to do that? Or lawyers trying to make a stupid case? Does it matter. Did he go to the Inauguration like all other presidents did? |
|
|
|
Post by archie on Oct 25, 2024 15:33:25 GMT
You ignorant idiots do all you can to try and make Trump look bad. The truth is that a lot of times Trump talks way over your idiotic heads. What you said that Trump said what does it mean? How about if you knew history and truth you might know Trump will save you dumb ass. Yes, get rid of Biden and Giggles before things get even worse. After a failed bomb attempt to assassinate Hitler on his airplane, the conspirators focused on an existing contingency plan code-named Operation Valkyrie. This operation was originally designed to militarily combat potential civil unrest in Germany. The conspirators modified the plan for their own aims, with the intention of taking control of German cities, disarming the SS, and arresting key Nazi leaders in the wake of the plot. As part of the plan, Colonel Stauffenberg would travel to Hitler’s headquarters in East Prussia (the “Wolf’s Lair”), where he would place a briefcase containing two bombs under Hitler’s briefing table. Once Hitler died in the explosion, the military would claim the assassination had been part of an attempted coup by the Nazi Party and would then implement Operation Valkyrie. The Reserve Army would seize key installations in Berlin and arrest high-ranking Nazi officials, including Goebbels, while disarming loyal SS units. Meanwhile, upon receipt of the Valkyrie orders, Stülpnagel would consolidate army power in France as well. In the confusion of Hitler’s death, Göring, Himmler, and other major Nazi leaders would be arrested, and a new government established with Goerdeler as Chancellor and Beck as president. This government would then be positioned to negotiate an armistice to end the war with more generous terms for Germany. Trump makes himself look bad. You are a stooge for his cult. You are the stooge. You and your kind that cannot know what someone is telling you if it is more than a ten word sentence. Trump was a good president for the country and us. I cannot say the same thing for Biden when he took over. And I am sure Harris did nothing to make it better either. And it was the two of them that allowed our country to be invaded. And your dumb ass has no idea of the danger you are living in. |
|
sokpupet
Legend
Go Dark Brandon!
Posts: 6,239
|
Post by sokpupet on Oct 26, 2024 16:42:45 GMT
Trump makes himself look bad. You are a stooge for his cult. You are the stooge. You and your kind that cannot know what someone is telling you if it is more than a ten word sentence. Trump was a good president for the country and us. I cannot say the same thing for Biden when he took over. And I am sure Harris did nothing to make it better either. And it was the two of them that allowed our country to be invaded. And your dumb ass has no idea of the danger you are living in. I have felt and seen zero impact of immigrants. When Trump removes them as he says, the entire country’s agricultural supply will essentially come to a stand still. Food supply distribution will fall to ruin. Hotels will close. Everywhere these people work will be undone. Trump is a fascist beating a drum and repeating fascist language to divide. He does not know how to lead a country except for making himself above all others. He is a sick fek. You are his cult. He is for a two tier society. The rich and the workers. You will be in the latter with your Soc. Sec. cut to the bones. Retirement will go up to 70. Have you even read Project 2025?! |
|
demos
Legend
Posts: 9,194
|
Post by demos on Nov 13, 2024 17:03:27 GMT
So, yeah...
Why would you need proof? That pesky Bill of Rights.
|
|
