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Post by Mercy for All on Apr 29, 2024 15:31:27 GMT
The fig tree example. Petty. Seems reading the "fig tree" that way is actually a "petty" way to read it. I mean, a cigar isn't just a cigar. I teapot isn't just a teapot. And a fig tree isn't always just a fig tree. Which, in the context of the whole text, should be pretty obvious. Well, if it's so obvious, then why don't you just tell us? The fig tree is a symbol of Israel (as is the vine and the vineyard). This would be obvious to original hearers and readers in Jesus' time, being a high context culture steeped in the Jewish texts. It's less obvious to us today. |
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Post by Mercy for All on Apr 29, 2024 15:31:55 GMT
It's a lot easier to conclude "doom and gloom" today than it was when Russell delivered that lecture. The optimism offered by science, technology, naturalism, etc., has been significantly eroded. That's no reason for abandoning science for magic. True. Who's suggesting we should? |
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Post by DaveJavu on Apr 29, 2024 16:41:01 GMT
That's no reason for abandoning science for magic. True. Who's suggesting we should? You seem to. |
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Post by DaveJavu on Apr 29, 2024 17:04:39 GMT
Well, if it's so obvious, then why don't you just tell us? The fig tree is a symbol of Israel (as is the vine and the vineyard). This would be obvious to original hearers and readers in Jesus' time, being a high context culture steeped in the Jewish texts. It's less obvious to us today. So you're saying that the apostle who wrote that passage wasn't faithfully reporting the deeds of Jesus but using him as a character in allegories? So what really happened? Did Jesus do anything all and that apostle just made that whole thing up. For all we know Jesus is just a character of fiction and the apostles made the whole thing up. Or did something really happen and if so then what? |
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Post by Mercy for All on Apr 29, 2024 17:43:47 GMT
The fig tree is a symbol of Israel (as is the vine and the vineyard). This would be obvious to original hearers and readers in Jesus' time, being a high context culture steeped in the Jewish texts. It's less obvious to us today. So you're saying that the apostle who wrote that passage wasn't faithfully reporting the deeds of Jesus but using him as a character in allegories? So what really happened? Did Jesus do anything all and that apostle just made that whole thing up. For all we know Jesus is just a character of fiction and the apostles made the whole thing up. Or did something really happen and if so then what? Symbols and symbolic actions can have either concrete or non-concrete referents. For Jesus to do something heavily laden with symbolism negates what would be merely “petty” about that action. |
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Post by DaveJavu on Apr 29, 2024 18:46:46 GMT
So you're saying that the apostle who wrote that passage wasn't faithfully reporting the deeds of Jesus but using him as a character in allegories? So what really happened? Did Jesus do anything all and that apostle just made that whole thing up. For all we know Jesus is just a character of fiction and the apostles made the whole thing up. Or did something really happen and if so then what? Symbols and symbolic actions can have either concrete or non-concrete referents. For Jesus to do something heavily laden with symbolism negates what would be merely “petty” about that action. So Jesus wanted figs, but it wasn't fig season so of course when he came close to a tree, it didn't have any figs on it, so Jesus cursed the tree that then died. Did it happen that way or did the apostle make part of it up? |
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Post by Mercy for All on Apr 29, 2024 21:38:14 GMT
Symbols and symbolic actions can have either concrete or non-concrete referents. For Jesus to do something heavily laden with symbolism negates what would be merely “petty” about that action. So Jesus wanted figs, but it wasn't fig season so of course when he came close to a tree, it didn't have any figs on it, so Jesus cursed the tree that then died. Did it happen that way or did the apostle make part of it up? I think it likely happened; the strongest skeptical scholars say that it is a difficult enough passage that it wouldn't have been "made up." That said, it may have been an allegorical story intended to communicate something about the coming judgment on Jerusalem (it is very reminiscent of Old Testament prophetic literature, most notably, the "parable of the vineyard" in Isaiah 5). |
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thor
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Post by thor on May 2, 2024 18:36:59 GMT
Symbols and symbolic actions can have either concrete or non-concrete referents. For Jesus to do something heavily laden with symbolism negates what would be merely “petty” about that action. So Jesus wanted figs, but it wasn't fig season so of course when he came close to a tree, it didn't have any figs on it, so Jesus cursed the tree that then died. Did it happen that way or did the apostle make part of it up? God hates figs. |
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Post by Mercy for All on May 2, 2024 19:37:50 GMT
So Jesus wanted figs, but it wasn't fig season so of course when he came close to a tree, it didn't have any figs on it, so Jesus cursed the tree that then died. Did it happen that way or did the apostle make part of it up? God hates figs. You're missing the point that there were no figs. |
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Post by DaveJavu on May 2, 2024 19:54:25 GMT
You're missing the point that there were no figs. He hates being frustrated when he has a craving for figs. |
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Post by Mercy for All on May 2, 2024 20:01:06 GMT
You're missing the point that there were no figs. He hates being frustrated when he has a craving for figs. Apparently, yes. Literally and figuratively. |
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thor
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Post by thor on May 2, 2024 23:35:34 GMT
You're missing the point that there were no figs. Ah, you missed the reference. It was from pushback against Fred Phelps and the Westboro baptist people a while back. Here you go:  |
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Post by Mercy for All on May 2, 2024 23:47:40 GMT
You're missing the point that there were no figs. Ah, you missed the reference. It was from pushback against Fred Phelps and the Westboro baptist people a while back. Here you go: Never, ever seen that before. I wish I had. That's frickin' hilarious! |
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