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Post by Mercy for All on Jul 4, 2020 16:46:29 GMT
This is a fascinating Twitter thread (not sure if you need a Twitter account to see it)...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2020 16:48:09 GMT
What do you think is going to happen after decades of the scientists getting things wrong time after time and publicly lying about it?
This isn't a conversation about Evangelicals. It's a conversation about the struggles of our time. The collapse of the credibility of experts and their machinations to hold onto the power and authority slipping away from them.
Queshank
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Post by Fiddler on Jul 4, 2020 17:51:24 GMT
What do you think is going to happen after decades of the scientists getting things wrong time after time and publicly lying about it? This isn't a conversation about Evangelicals. It's a conversation about the struggles of our time. The collapse of the credibility of experts and their machinations to hold onto the power and authority slipping away from them. Queshank The "collapse of the credibility" you speak of is a manufactured phenomena.. Manufactured by those with actual power and authority using the claim of 'expert' to manipulate thinking for THEIR benefit. It has nothing to do with knowledge in a specific discipline and everything to do with the average person's inability to identify a charlatan. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2020 17:54:45 GMT
What do you think is going to happen after decades of the scientists getting things wrong time after time and publicly lying about it? This isn't a conversation about Evangelicals. It's a conversation about the struggles of our time. The collapse of the credibility of experts and their machinations to hold onto the power and authority slipping away from them. Queshank The "collapse of the credibility" you speak of is a manufactured phenomena.. Manufactured by those with actual power and authority using the claim of 'expert' to manipulate thinking for THEIR benefit. It has nothing to do with knowledge in a specific discipline and everything to do with the average person's inability to identify a charlatan.
I invite you to read actual data on that Fiddler.
The problem is the average person is getting very good at identifying charlatans.
This is causing major problems for said charlatans.
Queshank
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Odysseus
Legend
Trump = Disaster
Posts: 41,101
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Post by Odysseus on Jul 4, 2020 20:01:46 GMT
This needs to be moved to the Religion thread.
Of which I see that Mercyforall is a moderator (!)...
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Post by Mercy for All on Jul 4, 2020 20:48:02 GMT
What do you think is going to happen after decades of the scientists getting things wrong time after time and publicly lying about it? This isn't a conversation about Evangelicals. It's a conversation about the struggles of our time. The collapse of the credibility of experts and their machinations to hold onto the power and authority slipping away from them. Queshank North American fundamentalist Christians (and any that would lean that way, like most evangelicals) have been "fighting science" for over a hundred years. Did you read through the Twitter conversation? |
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bama beau
Legend
Fish will piss anywhere. They just live in water.
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Post by bama beau on Jul 4, 2020 20:58:01 GMT
The "collapse of the credibility" you speak of is a manufactured phenomena.. Manufactured by those with actual power and authority using the claim of 'expert' to manipulate thinking for THEIR benefit. It has nothing to do with knowledge in a specific discipline and everything to do with the average person's inability to identify a charlatan.
I invite you to read actual data on that Fiddler.
The problem is the average person is getting very good at identifying charlatans.
This is causing major problems for said charlatans.
Queshank
Yet the worst charlatan of all is in the White House. Go figure. |
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Post by freonbale on Jul 4, 2020 21:11:47 GMT
What do you think is going to happen after decades of the scientists getting things wrong time after time and publicly lying about it? This isn't a conversation about Evangelicals. It's a conversation about the struggles of our time. The collapse of the credibility of experts and their machinations to hold onto the power and authority slipping away from them. Queshank You seem to misunderstand what science is. Science is the study of the physical world. As a collective, it can neither be called right nor wrong, only the cumulative knowledge it possesses at that moment in time.
So 'scientists getting things wrong' is normal and good. Science corrects itself, because other scientists constantly test it, looking for errors.
The opposite would be religion, which says how things are, and only incredibly slowly adapts to new situations (often in a negative way).
There is no better system for understanding our world than science. Your writing to me in this forum right now is testament to how science enables your first amendment rights. How does religion help with that?
Those who choose to ignore science do so at their own peril, though with COVID, they also imperil others.
Freon
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Odysseus
Legend
Trump = Disaster
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Post by Odysseus on Jul 4, 2020 21:19:17 GMT
A few years ago the circus came to town and left behind its #1 clown act.
Today we have the chance to return the clown company to whatever two-bit one-ring arena it emanated from, and bring forward real leadership.
The future of our nation may depend upon it.
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Post by freonbale on Jul 4, 2020 21:20:36 GMT
I invite you to read actual data on that Fiddler. The problem is the average person is getting very good at identifying charlatans.
This is causing major problems for said charlatans.
Queshank
Que, what possible evidence can you cite to support that claim? From my perspective, the gap between those who know, and those who don't, is getting wider every day. 'Common sense' is becoming more and more useless as the cumulative knowledge of our species increases. I would bet the 'average person' considers themselves within a 20% gap of those who actually dedicate their lives to knowledge, but the reality is more like a 90% gap. With knowledge should come wisdom, which is why we have that adage about those not knowing history, being doomed to repeat it. The problem is that those who know are incapable (it seems) of communicating to those who don't in a way that makes them respected and seriously listened to. Those who don't know, hear condescension, arrogance, and contempt. It is a divided society we live in, and though we bicker over politics, the core of the dichotomy is education. Freon |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2020 21:28:28 GMT
What do you think is going to happen after decades of the scientists getting things wrong time after time and publicly lying about it? This isn't a conversation about Evangelicals. It's a conversation about the struggles of our time. The collapse of the credibility of experts and their machinations to hold onto the power and authority slipping away from them. Queshank And that is the problem. Science is science. There is no opinion. There are hypothesis, theories and laws. Anyone that puts their opinion into it is not a scientist. But science has become a political tool. Probably because science was so reliable in the past. If you could say "I have science on my side" you could end debate. Recently we have had a series of politically motivated results and lies (for publicity, money or politics). Is there any wonder that a study by Exxon says the air is unaffected by fossil fuels or a study by the IPCC says America is the problem? Scientists, for one reason or another, have become malleable to the facts as a result of their motivations. |
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Post by Mercy for All on Jul 4, 2020 22:21:10 GMT
You seem to misunderstand what science is. Science is the study of the physical world. As a collective, it can neither be called right nor wrong, only the cumulative knowledge it possesses at that moment in time.
So 'scientists getting things wrong' is normal and good. Science corrects itself, because other scientists constantly test it, looking for errors.
The opposite would be religion, which says how things are, and only incredibly slowly adapts to new situations (often in a negative way).
There is no better system for understanding our world than science. Your writing to me in this forum right now is testament to how science enables your first amendment rights. How does religion help with that?
Those who choose to ignore science do so at their own peril, though with COVID, they also imperil others.
Freon
There is no better system for understand our physical world than science. If "science" (or...the technology that arises from the application of science?) facilitates the expression of first amendment rights, it has absolutely nothing to say about whether those rights exist or not. |
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Post by limey² on Jul 4, 2020 23:20:11 GMT
The "collapse of the credibility" you speak of is a manufactured phenomena.. Manufactured by those with actual power and authority using the claim of 'expert' to manipulate thinking for THEIR benefit. It has nothing to do with knowledge in a specific discipline and everything to do with the average person's inability to identify a charlatan.
I invite you to read actual data on that Fiddler.
The problem is the average person is getting very good at identifying charlatans.
This is causing major problems for said charlatans.
Queshank
If you're right it's the end of religion. And advertising. And astrology. And 98% of politics. |
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Post by limey² on Jul 4, 2020 23:21:55 GMT
You seem to misunderstand what science is. Science is the study of the physical world. As a collective, it can neither be called right nor wrong, only the cumulative knowledge it possesses at that moment in time.
So 'scientists getting things wrong' is normal and good. Science corrects itself, because other scientists constantly test it, looking for errors.
The opposite would be religion, which says how things are, and only incredibly slowly adapts to new situations (often in a negative way).
There is no better system for understanding our world than science. Your writing to me in this forum right now is testament to how science enables your first amendment rights. How does religion help with that?
Those who choose to ignore science do so at their own peril, though with COVID, they also imperil others.
Freon
There is no better system for understand our physical world than science. If "science" (or...the technology that arises from the application of science?) facilitates the expression of first amendment rights, it has absolutely nothing to say about whether those rights exist or not. Correct. And neither does religion. Hey, bolding works on this format! What about highlighting... [h]Stu... Stugaze ....[/h] |
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Post by limey² on Jul 4, 2020 23:23:40 GMT
Nope. We're safe.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2020 1:07:15 GMT
What do you think is going to happen after decades of the scientists getting things wrong time after time and publicly lying about it? This isn't a conversation about Evangelicals. It's a conversation about the struggles of our time. The collapse of the credibility of experts and their machinations to hold onto the power and authority slipping away from them. Queshank North American fundamentalist Christians (and any that would lean that way, like most evangelicals) have been "fighting science" for over a hundred years. Did you read through the Twitter conversation?
Just a little ways. I'm not fond of trying to sort through twitter threads. I made a twitter account a long time ago and I find the site more annoying than useful. And if the twitter conversation is all about "North American fundamentalist Christians" it's just public masturbation. Probably feels good for the one doing it. But is meaningless and unproductive.
Because it hasn't been just "North American fundamentalist Christians." There's also some muslims and jews in that mix. And some atheists.
And a whole lot of people who don't have faith in religion at all, but don't consider themselves atheists. They're not agnostics. They're not atheists. They're people who will say "I believe in God, I just don't believe in organized religion." And don't even know what that means. How come I know so many people who barely acknowledge the existence of a god in their life, yet are anti vaxxers? (And rabidly leftist btw ... every anti vaxxer or "vaxxer dubious" person I know is a leftist. Which is two. But ... battin 100% so far.)
There's been an erosion of the public's faith in all institutions. Including denominational religion. And I would argue all for the same reasons. People putting themselves on pedestals and then not living up to the ideals they espouse. In the religious leader's case ... piety. In scientists' case ... objectivity. Neil Ferguson ... one of the primary architects of the lockdowns in the West ... violating quarantine at his convenience for example.
It's all part of the same "I don't believe in anything" mentality.
Scott Coley is a SJW philosophy professor. We are at a point in our history where we have to take that into consideration on any subject he pontificates on. We can't just say "ooh he's a philosophy professor!" anymore. It's not enough. Popularity with his peers won't cut it.
I'll try to wade through the thread tonight. But there's so much garbage in between anything worthwhile. Like watching cable television and having to sit through commercials.
Queshank
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2020 1:09:16 GMT
I invite you to read actual data on that Fiddler.
The problem is the average person is getting very good at identifying charlatans.
This is causing major problems for said charlatans.
Queshank
If you're right it's the end of religion. And advertising. And astrology. And 98% of politics.
I am ... daily ... amazed that people don't see what's happening.
And what that means. How vulnerable it makes us.
Queshank
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Odysseus
Legend
Trump = Disaster
Posts: 41,101
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Post by Odysseus on Jul 5, 2020 1:12:35 GMT
You seem to misunderstand what science is. Science is the study of the physical world. As a collective, it can neither be called right nor wrong, only the cumulative knowledge it possesses at that moment in time.
So 'scientists getting things wrong' is normal and good. Science corrects itself, because other scientists constantly test it, looking for errors.
The opposite would be religion, which says how things are, and only incredibly slowly adapts to new situations (often in a negative way).
There is no better system for understanding our world than science. Your writing to me in this forum right now is testament to how science enables your first amendment rights. How does religion help with that?
Those who choose to ignore science do so at their own peril, though with COVID, they also imperil others.
Freon
There is no better system for understand our physical world than science. If "science" (or...the technology that arises from the application of science?) facilitates the expression of first amendment rights, it has absolutely nothing to say about whether those rights exist or not.
I guess you folks have never heard of:
Political Science
Social Science
Psychiatric Science
Christian Science
...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2020 1:34:09 GMT
This is a fascinating Twitter thread (not sure if you need a Twitter account to see it)...
Okay yeah. He's a twit. I tried Mercy. I tried. But this doesn't confirm my biases so it doesn't just go down smoothly.
This is the painfully foreseeable outcome of internalizing a false choice between faith and science.
That applies at least as much to the Richard Dawkinses of the world. And probably more. As they commercialized and exported skepticism as a commodity for the layman. (I'm not lumping him in there. He argues in defense of theism. Guess he's as interested in eating his own as most leftists are these days. What could go wrong?)
And then he segues into conversations about climate change and the pandemic to "prove" his point. Two scientific studies that are rampant with mistakes, errors, opinions , bias and legitimate questions about policy decisions being pushed using that same murky and questionable science as the justification.
You have probably seen me point out the similarity between the modeling for the pandemic ... and the modeling for climate science. And you've seen me predict climate science will suffer because of the abuses of "experts" during this pandemic. Here it is again in case you missed it on facebook  Queshank
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Post by limey² on Jul 5, 2020 1:56:25 GMT
If you're right it's the end of religion. And advertising. And astrology. And 98% of politics.
I am ... daily ... amazed that people don't see what's happening.
And what that means. How vulnerable it makes us.
Queshank
Very much with you. |
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