Odysseus
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Trump = Disaster
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Post by Odysseus on Aug 25, 2023 19:22:46 GMT
Bottom line, they may be nearly the same in terms of overall cost, although that depends on the brand.
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Post by william on Sept 1, 2023 22:36:27 GMT
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Odysseus
Legend
Trump = Disaster
Posts: 41,114
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Post by Odysseus on Sept 2, 2023 0:47:07 GMT
So... write your own article. |
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Post by william on Sept 2, 2023 3:49:51 GMT
So... write your own article. Why? There way too many studies that prove the crap you posted is oil industry crap. Keep it up. |
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Odysseus
Legend
Trump = Disaster
Posts: 41,114
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Post by Odysseus on Sept 2, 2023 4:16:42 GMT
So... write your own article. Why? There way too many studies that prove the crap you posted is oil industry crap. Keep it up.
Ignorant chicken.
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Post by Running Deer on Sept 3, 2023 19:55:29 GMT
Pretty good article, marred somewhat by using older numbers. I'll look at the Kona.
According to the EIA, electricity is now $0.159/kWh, rising 24% from 2019. According to AAA, the current national gas price average is $3.81, rising 56% from 2020. It's worth nothing that Feb. 2020 is a very bad representative of U.S. gas prices, as the pandemic had already locked down China and was starting to creep into the U.S. I expect gas prices to be much, much closer to $3.81 than $2.44, going forward.
This makes the Kona Electric an even better deal on fuel costs than the article's numbers. The Kona electric costs ~$2150 to drive 45k, the Kona gas costs ~$5600. That's $3400 - $3500 in savings on fuel.
Kona now has an electric model that starts at $35k, while the gas model starts at $22k. The price gap is down to $13k. However, the Kona Electric no longer qualifies for the $7500 tax rebate, due to the Inflation Reduction Act's American-made provisions.
I'll assume the maintenance cost is about right, a savings of ~$1000 for the electric. Some comments from electric car drivers indicate that they have not paid anywhere near $3000 in maintenance over 3 years, though.
This means the first 3 years/45k miles of the Kona electric, assuming you pay off the loan in 36 months, currently costs about $8500 more than the Kona gas. If the terms of your loan are longer than 36 months - and most are - you're going to be paying quite a bit more in interest, due to the $13k MSRP gap. The flip side is that gas maintenance costs start to rise past 50k and really rocket up after 100k. Electric car maintenance costs rise very slowly.
Due to higher fuel and maintenance costs, at some point between 100k - 200k miles, the Kona gas's total cost of ownership will pass the Kona electric's for good.
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Odysseus
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Trump = Disaster
Posts: 41,114
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Post by Odysseus on Sept 3, 2023 20:28:20 GMT
In California, the average electricity price, per KWH, is currently 19.90¢ / kWh, up almost 2.36% from a year ago this month. Compare that to the national average.
Electricity (kWh) Prices by State
STATE Aug 2023 Aug 2022 MOVEMENT CHANGE (%)
Alabama 12.41¢ / kWh 12.79¢ / kWh DOWN -2.971 %
Alaska 22.54¢ / kWh 22.14¢ / kWh UP 1.806 %
Arizona 13.16¢ / kWh 12.65¢ / kWh UP 4.031 %
Arkansas 9.99¢ / kWh 10.73¢ / kWh DOWN -6.896 %
California 19.90¢ / kWh 19.39¢ / kWh UP 2.630 %
Colorado 12.28¢ / kWh 12.75¢ / kWh DOWN -3.686 %
Connecticut 21.62¢ / kWh 20.47¢ / kWh UP 5.617 %
DC 13.21¢ / kWh 13.40¢ / kWh DOWN -1.417 %
Delaware 12.05¢ / kWh 12.59¢ / kWh DOWN -4.289 %
Florida 11.37¢ / kWh 12.02¢ / kWh DOWN -5.407 %
Georgia 12.26¢ / kWh 12.53¢ / kWh DOWN -2.154 %
Hawaii 32.76¢ / kWh 30.45¢ / kWh UP 7.586 %
Idaho 10.58¢ / kWh 11.42¢ / kWh DOWN -7.355 %
Illinois 12.56¢ / kWh 12.95¢ / kWh DOWN -3.011 %
Indiana 12.02¢ / kWh 12.05¢ / kWh DOWN -0.248 %
Iowa 13.81¢ / kWh 13.92¢ / kWh DOWN -0.790 %
Kansas 11.56¢ / kWh 13.56¢ / kWh DOWN -14.74 %
Kentucky 10.56¢ / kWh 10.68¢ / kWh DOWN -1.123 %
Louisiana 9.37¢ / kWh 10.19¢ / kWh DOWN -8.047 %
Maine 16.16¢ / kWh 16.17¢ / kWh DOWN -0.061 %
Maryland 13.92¢ / kWh 14.22¢ / kWh DOWN -2.109 %
Massachusetts 21.11¢ / kWh 18.56¢ / kWh UP 13.73 %
Michigan 16.07¢ / kWh 15.86¢ / kWh UP 1.324 %
Minnesota 14.09¢ / kWh 13.96¢ / kWh UP 0.931 %
Mississippi 11.55¢ / kWh 11.40¢ / kWh UP 1.315 %
Missouri 13.23¢ / kWh 13.25¢ / kWh DOWN -0.150 %
Montana 11.85¢ / kWh 11.73¢ / kWh UP 1.023 %
Nebraska 11.31¢ / kWh 12.06¢ / kWh DOWN -6.218 %
Nevada 11.67¢ / kWh 11.64¢ / kWh UP 0.257 %
New Hampshire 19.63¢ / kWh 19.30¢ / kWh UP 1.709 %
New Jersey 15.64¢ / kWh 15.96¢ / kWh DOWN -2.005 %
New Mexico 13.37¢ / kWh 13.41¢ / kWh DOWN -0.298 %
New York 19.30¢ / kWh 18.76¢ / kWh UP 2.878 %
North Carolina 11.24¢ / kWh 11.07¢ / kWh UP 1.535 %
North Dakota 12.07¢ / kWh 12.34¢ / kWh DOWN -2.188 %
Ohio 12.64¢ / kWh 12.67¢ / kWh DOWN -0.236 %
Oklahoma 10.72¢ / kWh 10.53¢ / kWh UP 1.804 %
Oregon 11.02¢ / kWh 10.97¢ / kWh UP 0.455 %
Pennsylvania 14.38¢ / kWh 14.52¢ / kWh DOWN -0.964 %
Rhode Island 18.64¢ / kWh 16.65¢ / kWh UP 11.95 %
South Carolina 12.91¢ / kWh 13.07¢ / kWh DOWN -1.224 %
South Dakota 12.39¢ / kWh 12.57¢ / kWh DOWN -1.431 %
Tennessee 10.79¢ / kWh 10.93¢ / kWh DOWN -1.280 %
Texas 11.36¢ / kWh 11.15¢ / kWh UP 1.883 %
Utah 10.63¢ / kWh 11.48¢ / kWh DOWN -7.404 %
Vermont 18.50¢ / kWh 18.02¢ / kWh UP 2.663 %
Virginia 12.40¢ / kWh 11.91¢ / kWh UP 4.114 %
Washington 9.79¢ / kWh 9.95¢ / kWh DOWN -1.608 %
West Virginia 11.57¢ / kWh 11.69¢ / kWh DOWN -1.026 %
Wisconsin 14.28¢ / kWh 15.05¢ / kWh DOWN -5.116 %
Wyoming 12.30¢ / kWh 12.21¢ / kWh UP 0.737 %
I notice that while California electricity rates are quite high, some states have even higher prices, such as Hawaii (highest), as well as Connecticut, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, and Alaska.
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Post by Running Deer on Sept 3, 2023 21:33:05 GMT
Yeah, the article is correct that the electricity price varies very widely by state. I should note that I don't see that site's source for its numbers.
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Odysseus
Legend
Trump = Disaster
Posts: 41,114
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Post by Odysseus on Sept 4, 2023 0:33:54 GMT
"For current (August 2023) electric rates in deregulated markets, enter in your zip code above to see current rates from retail energy providers in your area. "
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Post by william on Sept 5, 2023 17:16:03 GMT
Pretty good article, marred somewhat by using older numbers. I'll look at the Kona. According to the EIA, electricity is now $0.159/kWh, rising 24% from 2019. According to AAA, the current national gas price average is $3.81, rising 56% from 2020. It's worth nothing that Feb. 2020 is a very bad representative of U.S. gas prices, as the pandemic had already locked down China and was starting to creep into the U.S. I expect gas prices to be much, much closer to $3.81 than $2.44, going forward. This makes the Kona Electric an even better deal on fuel costs than the article's numbers. The Kona electric costs ~$2150 to drive 45k, the Kona gas costs ~$5600. That's $3400 - $3500 in savings on fuel. Kona now has an electric model that starts at $35k, while the gas model starts at $22k. The price gap is down to $13k. However, the Kona Electric no longer qualifies for the $7500 tax rebate, due to the Inflation Reduction Act's American-made provisions. I'll assume the maintenance cost is about right, a savings of ~$1000 for the electric. Some comments from electric car drivers indicate that they have not paid anywhere near $3000 in maintenance over 3 years, though. This means the first 3 years/45k miles of the Kona electric, assuming you pay off the loan in 36 months, currently costs about $8500 more than the Kona gas. If the terms of your loan are longer than 36 months - and most are - you're going to be paying quite a bit more in interest, due to the $13k MSRP gap. The flip side is that gas maintenance costs start to rise past 50k and really rocket up after 100k. Electric car maintenance costs rise very slowly. Due to higher fuel and maintenance costs, at some point between 100k - 200k miles, the Kona gas's total cost of ownership will pass the Kona electric's for good. I've had my model 3 for 4.5 years. Total maintenance has been a set of tires and wiper blades. Telsa tires are expensive - $325 each So total expenses over 4.5 years has been $1,400 |
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Post by Mercy for All on Sept 5, 2023 23:59:43 GMT
Pretty good article, marred somewhat by using older numbers. I'll look at the Kona. According to the EIA, electricity is now $0.159/kWh, rising 24% from 2019. According to AAA, the current national gas price average is $3.81, rising 56% from 2020. It's worth nothing that Feb. 2020 is a very bad representative of U.S. gas prices, as the pandemic had already locked down China and was starting to creep into the U.S. I expect gas prices to be much, much closer to $3.81 than $2.44, going forward. This makes the Kona Electric an even better deal on fuel costs than the article's numbers. The Kona electric costs ~$2150 to drive 45k, the Kona gas costs ~$5600. That's $3400 - $3500 in savings on fuel. Kona now has an electric model that starts at $35k, while the gas model starts at $22k. The price gap is down to $13k. However, the Kona Electric no longer qualifies for the $7500 tax rebate, due to the Inflation Reduction Act's American-made provisions. I'll assume the maintenance cost is about right, a savings of ~$1000 for the electric. Some comments from electric car drivers indicate that they have not paid anywhere near $3000 in maintenance over 3 years, though. This means the first 3 years/45k miles of the Kona electric, assuming you pay off the loan in 36 months, currently costs about $8500 more than the Kona gas. If the terms of your loan are longer than 36 months - and most are - you're going to be paying quite a bit more in interest, due to the $13k MSRP gap. The flip side is that gas maintenance costs start to rise past 50k and really rocket up after 100k. Electric car maintenance costs rise very slowly. Due to higher fuel and maintenance costs, at some point between 100k - 200k miles, the Kona gas's total cost of ownership will pass the Kona electric's for good. I've had my model 3 for 4.5 years. Total maintenance has been a set of tires and wiper blades. Telsa tires are expensive - $325 each So total expenses over 4.5 years has been $1,400 What about windshield washer fluid? |
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Post by william on Sept 6, 2023 0:24:37 GMT
I've had my model 3 for 4.5 years. Total maintenance has been a set of tires and wiper blades. Telsa tires are expensive - $325 each So total expenses over 4.5 years has been $1,400 What about windshield washer fluid? Damn, I forgot that. Thanks. Oh, and we once had to pay 50 cents to pump up a tire. |
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Odysseus
Legend
Trump = Disaster
Posts: 41,114
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Post by Odysseus on Sept 7, 2023 8:55:55 GMT
I've had my model 3 for 4.5 years. Total maintenance has been a set of tires and wiper blades. Telsa tires are expensive - $325 each So total expenses over 4.5 years has been $1,400 What about windshield washer fluid?
And, what about battery recharging?
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Post by Mercy for All on Sept 7, 2023 11:45:30 GMT
What about windshield washer fluid?
And, what about battery recharging?
That’s “maintenance”? |
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Post by william on Sept 9, 2023 0:58:07 GMT
What about windshield washer fluid?
And, what about battery recharging?
What about it? |
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Post by william on Sept 9, 2023 0:59:27 GMT
And, what about battery recharging?
That’s “maintenance”? And so much cheaper per mile than gas or diesel. |
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Odysseus
Legend
Trump = Disaster
Posts: 41,114
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Post by Odysseus on Sept 9, 2023 1:10:51 GMT
And, what about battery recharging?
What about it?
How much does battery recharging cost?
Remember, states vary widely in the price of electricity. Some states cost over $.20 per kWh. How many kWh does it take to go a mile in an EV?
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Odysseus
Legend
Trump = Disaster
Posts: 41,114
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Post by Odysseus on Sept 9, 2023 1:15:18 GMT
Then there is the lifetime of EV batteries. Sounds like after about 10 years, they are done. That's a maintenance cost.
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Post by william on Sept 9, 2023 2:19:13 GMT
How much does battery recharging cost?
Remember, states vary widely in the price of electricity. Some states cost over $.20 per kWh. How many kWh does it take to go a mile in an EV?
I'm done with you ridiculous comparisons. Yes, EVs are much cheaper to own and run. You buy gas for your vehicle, or do you even have any that run? Are replacement motors for your gas guzzler included? Do you include the cost for the rental space where you keep all of you broken down junkyard trash? Sorry Charlie, but the experts say you are wrong. |
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Post by Mercy for All on Sept 9, 2023 2:23:57 GMT
Then there is the lifetime of EV batteries. Sounds like after about 10 years, they are done. That's a maintenance cost. Nobody's making you buy one. |
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