freonbale
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Post by freonbale on Dec 15, 2022 15:06:38 GMT
You can be socially liberal, and fiscally conservative. 'Conservative' is not an all-inclusive term, which it seems the far right, not necessarily you, does not understand. I am socially liberal, but in most other ways, am conservative. I am for strengthening our military, for the second amendment, for being fiscally responsible, for locking down our borders. The big lie, is that a 'conservative' is what the far right defines it to be. They are a minority, and we REAL conservatives do not have to subscribe to their views. Freon So...you're "more conservative than not." I'm conservative in some ways, others, not so much. Totally arbitrary to give weight to one side over the other. Up until the Tea Party, I was registered Repub, and voted Repub. Then in early 2000s, I saw that the Repub party was becoming more radicalized, and so became an independent. Of the Repubs I know/knew, it's about 50/50 in the same boat as me. It used to surprise me when I told other former registered Repubs, my take on things, and have 1 out of 2 agree with me. That is what the far right truly does not understand. They could dominate this country, if they changed their binary politics. Right now, including in this very forum, if you are not 100% a far right conservative, you are not even considered a Repub. Worse, you are considered a leftist who wants socialism. It is a ridiculous perspective, by simple-minded people, but there it is. And the funny thing, is I've told them for six years, that I'm not their best friend, I'm their ONLY friend. But they shun me, rather than work with me. Stupid strategy. Freon |
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Post by Mercy for All on Dec 15, 2022 16:58:06 GMT
So...you're "more conservative than not." I'm conservative in some ways, others, not so much. Totally arbitrary to give weight to one side over the other. Up until the Tea Party, I was registered Repub, and voted Repub. Then in early 2000s, I saw that the Repub party was becoming more radicalized, and so became an independent. Of the Repubs I know/knew, it's about 50/50 in the same boat as me. It used to surprise me when I told other former registered Repubs, my take on things, and have 1 out of 2 agree with me. That is what the far right truly does not understand. They could dominate this country, if they changed their binary politics. Right now, including in this very forum, if you are not 100% a far right conservative, you are not even considered a Repub. Worse, you are considered a leftist who wants socialism. It is a ridiculous perspective, by simple-minded people, but there it is. And the funny thing, is I've told them for six years, that I'm not their best friend, I'm their ONLY friend. But they shun me, rather than work with me. Stupid strategy. Freon Looking in from the outside, it seems odd that being designated "Republican" or "Democrat" is such a significant thing. |
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freonbale
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Stop telling me I'm awesome. I already know.
Posts: 19,761
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Post by freonbale on Dec 15, 2022 17:22:52 GMT
I'm conservative in some ways, others, not so much. Totally arbitrary to give weight to one side over the other. Up until the Tea Party, I was registered Repub, and voted Repub. Then in early 2000s, I saw that the Repub party was becoming more radicalized, and so became an independent. Of the Repubs I know/knew, it's about 50/50 in the same boat as me. It used to surprise me when I told other former registered Repubs, my take on things, and have 1 out of 2 agree with me. That is what the far right truly does not understand. They could dominate this country, if they changed their binary politics. Right now, including in this very forum, if you are not 100% a far right conservative, you are not even considered a Repub. Worse, you are considered a leftist who wants socialism. It is a ridiculous perspective, by simple-minded people, but there it is. And the funny thing, is I've told them for six years, that I'm not their best friend, I'm their ONLY friend. But they shun me, rather than work with me. Stupid strategy. Freon Looking in from the outside, it seems odd that being designated "Republican" or "Democrat" is such a significant thing. Labels are as much a part of the human condition, as anything else. Universal truth means we all experience these phenomena at some level. A pragmatist acknowledges that, and then uses that knowledge to make decisions. Freon |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2022 22:18:19 GMT
Looking in from the outside, it seems odd that being designated "Republican" or "Democrat" is such a significant thing. Labels are as much a part of the human condition, as anything else. Universal truth means we all experience these phenomena at some level. A pragmatist acknowledges that, and then uses that knowledge to make decisions. Freon Is it my imagination or do you sound like Yoda? |
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freonbale
Legend
Stop telling me I'm awesome. I already know.
Posts: 19,761
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Post by freonbale on Dec 15, 2022 22:21:45 GMT
Labels are as much a part of the human condition, as anything else. Universal truth means we all experience these phenomena at some level. A pragmatist acknowledges that, and then uses that knowledge to make decisions. Freon Is it my imagination or do you sound like Yoda? Right, you could be..., mmmm... Or my mouth, bullshit exudes, yes? Freon |
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Post by Mercy for All on Dec 15, 2022 22:53:15 GMT
Looking in from the outside, it seems odd that being designated "Republican" or "Democrat" is such a significant thing. Labels are as much a part of the human condition, as anything else. Universal truth means we all experience these phenomena at some level. A pragmatist acknowledges that, and then uses that knowledge to make decisions. Freon Of course. I just don't know why those two labels are so important to some. It seems like they are more specific and "higher resolution" than, say, conservative and liberal. The higher the resolution, the more difficult to find common ground. |
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freonbale
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Stop telling me I'm awesome. I already know.
Posts: 19,761
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Post by freonbale on Dec 15, 2022 22:57:45 GMT
Labels are as much a part of the human condition, as anything else. Universal truth means we all experience these phenomena at some level. A pragmatist acknowledges that, and then uses that knowledge to make decisions. Freon Of course. I just don't know why those two labels are so important to some. It seems like they are more specific and "higher resolution" than, say, conservative and liberal. The higher the resolution, the more difficult to find common ground. Well, those two words have changed meanings so many times in our history, it is hard to even keep track of them. But the words are not the problem. It's the people, which are. It's the completely lack of civility, combined with the belief that an ideology can have complete victory in politics. Freon |
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Odysseus
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Post by Odysseus on Dec 15, 2022 23:03:29 GMT
Labels are as much a part of the human condition, as anything else. Universal truth means we all experience these phenomena at some level. A pragmatist acknowledges that, and then uses that knowledge to make decisions. Freon Of course. I just don't know why those two labels are so important to some. It seems like they are more specific and "higher resolution" than, say, conservative and liberal. The higher the resolution, the more difficult to find common ground.
MFA, I think you got it all backwards. Republican and Democrat are labels that are far more generic than conservative and liberal. For example, the GOP includes some liberals, and the Democrats include some who are rather conservative in some aspects. There is also the regional aspect. Used to be that Southern Democrats were the party of racism in the American South. Not so much today, I gather. In fact the Dems across the nation are generally more in favor of integration and combating racism than the GOPpers.
I gather that you are Canadian, which may account for your false impression of American politics.
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Post by Mercy for All on Dec 16, 2022 3:19:39 GMT
Of course. I just don't know why those two labels are so important to some. It seems like they are more specific and "higher resolution" than, say, conservative and liberal. The higher the resolution, the more difficult to find common ground.
MFA, I think you got it all backwards. Republican and Democrat are labels that are far more generic than conservative and liberal. For example, the GOP includes some liberals, and the Democrats include some who are rather conservative in some aspects. There is also the regional aspect. Used to be that Southern Democrats were the party of racism in the American South. Not so much today, I gather. In fact the Dems across the nation are generally more in favor of integration and combating racism than the GOPpers.
I gather that you are Canadian, which may account for your false impression of American politics.
Not at all. "Conservative" and "liberal" are terms that transcend American politics, unlike "Republican vs. Democrat." |
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Odysseus
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Trump=Chump
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Post by Odysseus on Dec 16, 2022 6:44:36 GMT
MFA, I think you got it all backwards. Republican and Democrat are labels that are far more generic than conservative and liberal. For example, the GOP includes some liberals, and the Democrats include some who are rather conservative in some aspects. There is also the regional aspect. Used to be that Southern Democrats were the party of racism in the American South. Not so much today, I gather. In fact the Dems across the nation are generally more in favor of integration and combating racism than the GOPpers.
I gather that you are Canadian, which may account for your false impression of American politics.
Not at all. "Conservative" and "liberal" are terms that transcend American politics, unlike "Republican vs. Democrat."
True, but in America the Republican and Democratic parties both contain substantial numbers of Conservatives and Liberals. Of course the GOP contains more conservatives than liberals, and conversely the Democrats have more liberals than conservatives. I think you are choosing to miss my point.
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Post by Mercy for All on Dec 16, 2022 11:11:16 GMT
Not at all. "Conservative" and "liberal" are terms that transcend American politics, unlike "Republican vs. Democrat."
True, but in America the Republican and Democratic parties both contain substantial numbers of Conservatives and Liberals. Of course the GOP contains more conservatives than liberals, and conversely the Democrats have more liberals than conservatives. I think you are choosing to miss my point.
I’m not trying to claim an equivalency between conservative and Republican or between liberal and Democrat. I’m saying that Republican and Democrat are more specific and it’s strange that as categories they seem to be so important to some. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2022 17:10:09 GMT
True, but in America the Republican and Democratic parties both contain substantial numbers of Conservatives and Liberals. Of course the GOP contains more conservatives than liberals, and conversely the Democrats have more liberals than conservatives. I think you are choosing to miss my point.
I’m not trying to claim an equivalency between conservative and Republican or between liberal and Democrat. I’m saying that Republican and Democrat are more specific and it’s strange that as categories they seem to be so important to some. We live in a strange world. |
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Odysseus
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Post by Odysseus on Dec 17, 2022 8:37:02 GMT
I guess non-Americans don't get our system.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2022 9:36:29 GMT
I guess non-Americans don't get our system. That's putting it mildly. |
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Post by Mercy for All on Dec 17, 2022 14:05:21 GMT
I guess non-Americans don't get our system. If the “system” prioritizes political party affiliation (official or unofficial) over political leaning, yeah, I don’t get that. That’s what I said. |
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Post by johnnybgood on Dec 17, 2022 15:39:44 GMT
You're right. Ive said that numerous times. The liberal is gaining in numbers while patriots or conservatives are depleting. Schools are teaching kids to be liberals. Thats why conservatives and myself (Independent centrist) are depleting. You can be socially liberal, and fiscally conservative. 'Conservative' is not an all-inclusive term, which it seems the far right, not necessarily you, does not understand. I am socially liberal, but in most other ways, am conservative. I am for strengthening our military, for the second amendment, for being fiscally responsible, for locking down our borders. The big lie, is that a 'conservative' is what the far right defines it to be. They are a minority, and we REAL conservatives do not have to subscribe to their views. Freon There's a certain language we use here. I know what you're saying. That's not really how we've communicated here from what I remember. We don't split it up into sections and categories. Stu could have some liberal in him. I probably have more liberal in me then conservatives. Socially I change depending on my environment. Im hard core liberal speaker at work, and not so much when socializing with friends and family. When specifically speaking of "fiscally conservative" Im not much of that. Spend tax money on military or on health care and education is an example of what you're talking about. I support defense technology spend for the military. We don't need money to invade Iraq. We defend against China. |
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freonbale
Legend
Stop telling me I'm awesome. I already know.
Posts: 19,761
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Post by freonbale on Dec 17, 2022 15:55:11 GMT
You can be socially liberal, and fiscally conservative. 'Conservative' is not an all-inclusive term, which it seems the far right, not necessarily you, does not understand. I am socially liberal, but in most other ways, am conservative. I am for strengthening our military, for the second amendment, for being fiscally responsible, for locking down our borders. The big lie, is that a 'conservative' is what the far right defines it to be. They are a minority, and we REAL conservatives do not have to subscribe to their views. Freon There's a certain language we use here. I know what you're saying. That's not really how we've communicated here from what I remember. We don't split it up into sections and categories. Stu could have some liberal in him. I probably have more liberal in me then conservatives. Socially I change depending on my environment. Im hard core liberal speaker at work, and not so much when socializing with friends and family. When specifically speaking of "fiscally conservative" Im not much of that. Spend tax money on military or on health care and education is an example of what you're talking about. I support defense technology spend for the military. We don't need money to invade Iraq. We defend against China. You definitely get the nuance, but to most of the far right, especially in here, there is just their view, and no view. You are either 100% of all their views, or don't call yourself a conservative. This all-or-nothing attitude cannot win elections, cannot make laws, at least at a large scale. Yet they cling to it, because they've been told it is possible to have their views, and still control the country. And they clearly believe it. They are suckers. Freon |
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bama beau
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Post by bama beau on Dec 18, 2022 4:33:01 GMT
The words of Mike on All in the Family. "I love this country. Thats why when I think something is wrong I protest" Liberal are annoying, but I just hope they realize they can be annoying because of the country they live in. Many countries don't allow liberal behavior. You have it back-assward. This country is free because some of us won't be silenced, not because the country allows us to speak freely. |
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Post by johnnybgood on Dec 18, 2022 15:32:38 GMT
The words of Mike on All in the Family. "I love this country. Thats why when I think something is wrong I protest" Liberal are annoying, but I just hope they realize they can be annoying because of the country they live in. Many countries don't allow liberal behavior. You have it back-assward. This country is free because some of us won't be silenced, not because the country allows us to speak freely. This defeats a lot of stupid stuff Ive said. Thats like saying "I got wet because I jumped in the lake, not because I jumped in water" |
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